Overseas sale

[Carl Beck]

The problem is not "Europeans", nor "Swiss people" - - the real problem is that on the Internet you never really know who someone is, nor where he is actually located.

Every year, people here in the US and I'm sure around the world fall for the "Nigerian scams" and lose millions of dollars. Internet Fraud is everywhere - people even routinely get screwed on E-Bay...

It is hard enough to take any legal action when a person is located within your own State here in the U.S. - it is all but impossible to take effective legal action when someone is out of the Country.

It is very understandable that a seller in the U.S. would rather find a buyer in the U.S. if possible. There are far less complications to the transaction.

The bottom line is that you don't have to "trust" anyone, anywhere. Simply set the terms of the sale such that all funds have to be paid-in-full before releasing anything. IMHO the best way to handle that is via an international Funds Transfer via the banking system.... ie. have the buyer wire the money to your bank account. If your worried about it - open another account with a new bank and use that for any and only on-line transactions...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[esmit208]

To echo pretty much what most others think! "NO CAR UNTIL I HAVE ALL CASH IN MY HAND", regardless of method of pay. Buyer is responsible for shipping. Getting half the cash up front is a good idea though since he is coming to the states. But when he arrives only accept CASH! Make it clearly understood before you meet for the final transaction.

[FastWoman]

FAIW, I like to meet in banks to do transactions. If a bank is handing out the cash, I can assume it's good. I like to do this whether I'm buying or selling. (I think it's reassuring to the seller when I'm buying -- a show of good faith.) Cashiers' checks are a bit trickier. It's reassuring to be there when the bank issues the check, but it is actually possible to stop payment on a cashier's check. (I don't know under what circumstances this can be done, but it can indeed be done.) For this reason I won't take cashiers' checks. However, when I bought my last car, the seller did ask for a cashier's check, which I had issued in his presence at my bank.

[ezzzzzzz]

If you're going to do this then provide him a list of brokers in your area (someone mentioned a broker already). Let him go through the whole process with the broker. You'll only be required to turn over the car, bill of sale and title to the shipper once the broker has made payment to you via the buyers financial institute. It takes all of the risk and hassle out of it for you. I've bought several vehicles overseas and had them shipped here. A broker is required to deal with the shipper, customs and other gov't agencies. I've always used a bank transfer without problems as a buyer.

[GSCReno]

Using a broker is no guarantee of honesty either. In many cases all a broker does is cost the buyer more money. The broker has to be paid, and you probably don't want to give him a cut of your share, right? Use the wire transfer method. As was mentioned earlier, every time that you write a check the person that you write it to has your account routing info. There is very little risk to you because you have his money and his car. Several years ago I sold 8-12 cars per month to a dealer in the Netherlands. We always did wire transfer and never had a problem of any sort. The biggest hazard is the fact that Big Brother monitors such transfers to make sure that you're not laundering funds for terrorists or drug cartels. Good luck with your sale. Cheers, Scott

[Lazeum]

Hi,

I would advice to be careful about car to be sold overseas. I'm sure also if he's willing to go that route & look serious, he has been involved in some ways with Z clubs somewhere.

I'm a mod on the French board, there're a lot of swiss people there. The buyer might be part of them, I can find info maybe about him. If you have his first name, that would help (last name will not).

Last advice, cashier check are NOT SAFE. You also have to know that you'll get money in your account BEFORE the bank can make sure it's real. Lead time is about 2 weeks to clear the check.

So no matter what, plan for a period of time between money transfer and car shipment if you decide to trust the buyer.

The usual scam from Africa asks you to cash out a cashier check (fake obviously), the buyer alert you the check was too big but he has no other choice and will ask you to send back some of the money thru Western Union. Since the money is in your account, you go for it. One week after the bank remove the money from your account because the cashier check was fake but the money you've sent thru Western Union was real (and gone )

[Willoughby Z]

There are real, legitimate, verifiable brokers and not. Do your homework. I have nothing to gain from suggesting escrow.com.

transfers, checks, escrow services, whatever. There are fees associated with all options.

Cash is good. At the end of the day, you have to do what you're at peace with.

[GSCReno]

There are indeed many brokers that are legit. And at least that many more who are not. My point is why would you use a broker, who BTW is going to charge someone either you or the buyer 10-15% of the sale price of the vehicle, to do something that you can do yourself. 3 or 4 phone calls to various forwarding companies, and he's 'earned' his commission. Do an online search for forwarding companies. The Tidewater area (Norfolk, VA) is probably going to be the closest major seaport to you. When the car arrives at the forwarder you walk into the office with the vehicle title, tell them that you're dropping it off for shipment to 'Mr. John Doe' in wherever Switzerland, give them John's contact info, a company rep. walks out and verifies the VIN, takes a marker and writes on the windshield J. Doe- Geneva, Switzerland, you roll the car off the trailer and into their holding yard to be loaded on a container... That's it. 15 minutes and you're down and away. The forwarder handles everything from that point on. It could not be easier. There is no Customs paperwork to fill out, nothin', that's it. Now importing a car is a different story, but exporting one is a doodle. Over the years I've exported cars to the Netherlands, the UK and France. Sent a Lotus Europa to Japan and most recently, a Fiat 124 Spider to New Zealand. The places and faces change, but the process remains the same. Just a little FWIW from one who's been there, done that. Cheers, Scott

[JohnnyO]

+1 for Carl's suggestion. Wire transfers, bank to bank, into a new account. From there you can log into your online banking account and move it to your "regular" account. The purchaser will never know your regular account number and your bank will be able to tell you when it has "cleared".

Best of all, it has most of the benefits of using an escrow account without the fees.

John

[Carl Beck]

It's reassuring to be there when the bank issues the check, but it is actually possible to stop payment on a cashier's check. (I don't know under what circumstances this can be done, but it can indeed be done.) For this reason I won't take cashiers' checks.

At least at the banks I deal with - Stop Payment Orders can be made at any time before the Cashier's Check has cleared. The issuing bank can check up to the hour to see if it has been presented for payment or not... With a personal check, you have to wait until the following day to see if it cleared the day before or not.

So you can actually stop payment on a Cashier's Check more quickly and assuredly than you can with a personal check.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Reverend]

The bottom line is that you don't have to "trust" anyone, anywhere. Simply set the terms of the sale such that all funds have to be paid-in-full before releasing anything. IMHO the best way to handle that is via an international Funds Transfer via the banking system.... ie. have the buyer wire the money to your bank account. If your worried about it - open another account with a new bank and use that for any and only on-line transactions...

FWIW,

Carl B.

I refer to my previous post. What IF the buyer wont give you any details for transaction? I only now talk about my case and in that case it was matter of TRUST.

Im with ajmcforester in this. We risk a lot more when ordering cars from abroad. I know one 240Z from Texas wich was imported here. It was sold as driveable and when it arrived, engine was blown...

[chaztg]

I sold a 1971 240Z to someone in Norway. I was dubious at first, but he sent me the money (I think with a cashier's check or a money order--I forget exactly which it was). As I said, I was skeptical all the way up until I actually confirmed that I had the dough including shipping cost, which he made the arrangements for. All I had to do was deliver the car to the shipping depot 100 miles away. Strange thing was I never heard from him again, no thank you message...nothing. His English was decent too, in emails of course, we never spoke over the phone. I've lost track of the car, but it would be fun to know what happened to it. Maybe it's registered on Carl Beck's site?