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A "what would you offer thread"


jwerner2

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So Im debating on a second Z already. Its another 76 280 like the one I just bought the other week but has much more problems as far as I can see. The owner has been brief and has not confirmed any problems with the car yet ( but I keep asking ) which concerns me. Its a Craigslist find and Im gunna have to drive 2 hours to view the car. Here are some pics. I have no problem working on the body and interior cause well its a Datsun and I can only expect to replace 1/2-3/4 of the cars body panels anyway with catchy aftermarket stuff.

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Really? I mean, considering it runs and I most likely will be doing a new paint job and some other body parts anyway is it really that bad? I wont pay no 1,000$ that's for sure...LOL!

I really cant find anything for under 1K in better shape around here. Im on the east and Z's are in horrible shape. Especially this close to the shore.

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I forgot about that east coast-west coast thing. Still, that some pretty scary looking rust in obvious places. Would hate to see the not so obvious places. I would definitely have to leave that one alone. That much rust is out of my league.

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I know I ain't driving two hours to look at that one......

Even if he says 500$?

I live in Delaware anyways. Everything is at least an hour away:sick:

EDIT:

I actually just noticed the hole in the headlight bucket:cry:

Edited by jwerner2
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Im not looking at it in a restoration point of view, Im looking at it as a customization point of view. As long as I dont have to do much welding Im ok with some more simple body work.

I am thinking about blowing it off but Im not understanding the logic here. The rust dont look as if its rusted through in most spots and if people can sell a sanded down rolling shell for 1,000 with no motor or trans whats wrong with getting this car for possibly half of that cost and doing some one off work?

Im not trying to be rude or anything at all.

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Considering where you're at, I'd say go for it (if you can get it for about 500) and consider it a parts car. Salvage everything you can, scrap or practice on the rest. But really, it all comes down to you, the price, and your ability to store it.

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Forget it. This guys a idiot. He is the type that feels he is entitled to double the value cause he cant let it go. I hate those people. If you cant let it go then fix it. If your not fixing it obviously you either dont care about it or it has no hope.

Wont budge under $1500.

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Why hate him? He isn't stealing your money. If you don't like his price, don't buy - pretty simple.

FWIW, you couldn't pay me to take that car for all the reasons stated by others. I've seen some pretty ambitious rust repairs on this forum, but none of them looked THAT bad before even being disassembled.

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Sorry you have no reason to be offended but its the general principal and the fact its a poor way to do business.

If you think the car looks so bad than you have to agree that its pretty lame to try and sell it and claim its worth more than what its actually worth just cause he cant let it go yet has no ambition to fix it himself. Sorry,but that's just a personal peeve I have in this used car game:ermm:.

And I know I seen way worse project cars then that doing some searching.

Like I said, I was worried about some of the rust but I have the understanding that if the car can be had cheap it can be made worth it cause I would be replacing those parts anyway. So, why pay so much more for a better looking car just to remove those parts? That and I do like the parts car idea as well.

Edited by jwerner2
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Your totally wrong. Im not in anyway offended but thats not at all how I come off nor is it how I wish to if that is how your taking it. I barely have any threads started.

I learned from searching this site that their is value in almost anything when dealing with this car. My opinion is why I decide to even make a offer on the car so my opinion should count in some way. Acting as if my opinion does not count and others should really aint playing fair. Besides,whats the point in having your own opinion if you are to worried about voicing it?

Also:

Sorry you have no reason to be offended but its the general principal and the fact its a poor way to do business.

If you think the car looks so bad than you have to agree that its pretty lame to try and sell it and claim its worth more than what its actually worth just cause he cant let it go yet has no ambition to fix it himself. Sorry,but that's just a personal peeve I have in this used car game.

This was intended to be sincere and a answer to his question. Not rude or narrow minded in anyway.

Now Im going to have to resort to posting a silly smiley face so you know Im not being a jerk cause its hard to tell ones feelings when its just a bunch of typed up words.:beer:

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One more time: It's just an observation. Surely you can see how I or anyone else would come to such a conclusion. I'm not wrong; niether are you. You said 'what would you offer'. I pretty much said 'I wouldn't'. I'm not trying to change your mind; don't try to change mine. I'll say nothing else on this subject.

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One more time: It's just an observation. Surely you can see how I or anyone else would come to such a conclusion. I'm not wrong; niether are you. You said 'what would you offer'. I pretty much said 'I wouldn't'. I'm not trying to change your mind; don't try to change mine. I'll say nothing else on this subject.

And this is the guy telling me I make it look as if my opinion is all that matters?

I took the " I wouldn't offer anything " into consideration if you couldn't tell around post number 8.

I wasnt forcing my opinion on anyone. I was just making my reasoning clear!

I tried to clear things up... oh well.

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Its frustrating that here is a car that nobody would touch with a 10 foot pole and the owner thinks they can get a lot of money for it. For $1500 the car better be in better condition. You could always leave the offer of $500 and wait until he realizes he can't sell it for what he wants. Maybe time will be the deciding factor. As long as the car doesn't rust away before then. Good luck with your continued searches.

carl

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So Im debating on a second Z already. Its another 76 280 like the one I just bought the other week but has much more problems as far as I can see. The owner has been brief and has not confirmed any problems with the car yet ( but I keep asking ) which concerns me. Its a Craigslist find and Im gunna have to drive 2 hours to view the car. Here are some pics. I have no problem working on the body and interior cause well its a Datsun and I can only expect to replace 1/2-3/4 of the cars body panels anyway with catchy aftermarket stuff.

Personally looking at the amount of rust on the surface I'm afraid to even see the hidden damages. In my honest opinion I would pass. Even if you did you own body work and painted it the color you want I can't see paying $500 for that car.

Look at it this way. For the amount of money you'll spend (and time of course) fixing that car up you could buy a Z with less body damages and do the work to that one. Replacing nearly ever panel on the car just doesn't seem like my type of "fun"

Jan

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Im not looking at it in a restoration point of view, Im looking at it as a customization point of view. As long as I dont have to do much welding Im ok with some more simple body work.

I'm assuming you don't have welding equipment...

You can aquire a used 110V MIG welder for a $100-150. Buy a 40cuft Argon/CO2 cylinder for a couple hundred with contents. (grab a spool of .023 wire too) It's easy to learn MIG.

IMHO if you get a Z... especially one like that you'll need to do some welding. Perhaps you meant that you didnt want to do major structural repair. (frame rails etc)

I was astonished to see a friends fathers five year old truck almost completely rusted away from northern driving. Poor guy had already replaced his brake lines and the his oil pan developed a rust hole!

The $1500 Z's floor pans are toast BTW. I'd offer him $250 and use it soley for parts.

2c

Edited by JimmyZ
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It is a complete waste of time and money. NOTHING on that car has enough value to warrant dragging it home to salvage.

Usually, everyone thinks there stuff is priceless and everyone else's is junk. It is just the way it works. This car, by any standard, is junk.

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I never said I was offended, please don't put words into my mouth.

All I was saying is that it's silly to feel hatred towards the seller just because he wasn't behaving in a way most of us would consider reasonable. What's mine is mine and what's his is his, and if I make him an offer, and he's not happy with it, well, that's too bad for me - he is not under any circumstances required to accept my offer, or even be "reasonable" in considering my offer. That is part of living in a free market society like ours, and thank goodness for that.

I once related a story on these forums of unknowingly running into a certain Austin billionaire in a grocery store parking lot here in town - one of the 20 richest men on earth. He expressed his nostalgia for the early Z, having had one for a short time in his youth, and admired mine particularly. When he asked me "how much would you sell it for," I said "I wouldn't." I then told him what I thought a Z in my condition was worth, and that he should check online to find someone selling if he was truly interested. I didn't know who he was at the time (just knew he was rich based on his $500,000+ supercar parked next to my little Z, and the large car collection we discussed in our conversation), and a lot of my friends, given the facts learned afterward, said I was stupid. I disagree - my car has a certain nostalgic value to me. We've been through a lot, and while certainly a value could be placed on it, I certainly do not feel that way.

Now true, I didn't offer my car up for sale and subsequently flip-flop on my asking price, but that is his right, as foolish as we may think it is.

Aside from that, you don't know what's going on with this guy - maybe he's being pressured to sell by someone in his family, to clear out the driveway for a new minivan and Craigslist is just a way to show this person that "at least he is trying?" Maybe he's too busy to fix it now, but a part of him holds out hope of one day working on it? Who knows. Anyway, I'm done here.

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Not to attach value to his 280, but I paid $750 for a running and driving '72 240, a little over one year ago, to try and put things into a realistic spectrum, throwing bargain hunting and sentiment out the window.

The only time something has monetary value is when both people can come to an agreement in price and strike a deal. The reason for values gathered is not important after the exchange.

And such are deals that fall through. It doesn't matter why you disagree, the point is; you both couldn't come to a conclusion with an arrangement to exchange. It doesn't matter if it is logical or illogical. Hell, it doesn't even matter if it's with or without reason. It's all water under the bridge.

To answer the initial question of this thread, I would personally offer $500 cash if an open title was available. I believe any running and driving car is worth $500 or more, with fewer repairs needed to be road worthy.

Should he want to sell the car for less than his asking price of $1,500 or keep it, he'll figure it out on his own terms.

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I never said I was offended, please don't put words into my mouth.

Dude, I never put any words in your mouth and it appears as if your the one doing so. I said " Im sorry you don't have any reason to be offended ". Not, " Im sorry your offended".

Please calm down a bit. Im meaning no harm. Please read the post and dont jump to conclusions. Its a personal pet peeve of mine as I said. I also said I was being sincere about it and not trying to sound like a jerk. When you deal with such ignorance multiple times it gets frustrating and you grow a certain kind of hatred for those stubborn type of people. Its easy for one to feel someone like that is also trying to take advantage of you if indeed he does not have sentimental value to the car.

Aside from that, you don't know what's going on with this guy - maybe he's being pressured to sell by someone in his family, to clear out the driveway for a new minivan and Craigslist is just a way to show this person that "at least he is trying?" Maybe he's too busy to fix it now, but a part of him holds out hope of one day working on it? Who knows. Anyway, I'm done here.

Its been up on Craigslist for a while and I cant see reality setting in any time soon but if this was the case why cant he see it realistically? If he is indeed being pressured to get rid of it why is he insisting on getting so much more than what its worth? If its been sitting for years like he claims he should be willing to take the money and run cause no one else has offered him an appealing enough deal either. Its actually posted with two different descriptions. One simply says has engine and trans call, xxx-xxx-xxxx and the other appears to be typed up by his wife with a description of the vehicle not fitting for the pics. Im not a Detective but that tells me they just wanna pinch someone and not out of sentiment.

To answer the initial question of this thread, I would personally offer $500 cash if an open title was available. I believe any running and driving car is worth $500 or more, with fewer repairs needed to be road worthy

Exactly. I can easily remove any parts that are in working order and get that much back for scrapping the rest if I can not proceed with repairs so it works either way. I think people are looking at it in a different view, more of a restoration and whats it going to be worth later on point of view. Plus, lots of people advertise that they will pick up non running vehicles and pay you for scrap.

Owning the car I drive daily now made me care less about end value. I paid $16,000 when I bought it used and 1 year later in the same condition it was in when I purchased it the depreciation dropped the car down significantly in price. More than half of what I paid. So, now when I buy a car I look at it like Im stuck with it for good and may as well do what I want with it so long as Im paying cash in hand.

I'm assuming you don't have welding equipment...

You can aquire a used 110V MIG welder for a $100-150. Buy a 40cuft Argon/CO2 cylinder for a couple hundred with contents. (grab a spool of .023 wire too) It's easy to learn MIG.

IMHO if you get a Z... especially one like that you'll need to do some welding. Perhaps you meant that you didnt want to do major structural repair. (frame rails etc)

I was astonished to see a friends fathers five year old truck almost completely rusted away from northern driving. Poor guy had already replaced his brake lines and the his oil pan developed a rust hole!

The $1500 Z's floor pans are toast BTW. I'd offer him $250 and use it soley for parts.

2c

Thanks. I have to get some of this equipment sometime soon anyway for the one I bought the other week. Im not a expert at looking at a cars picture and telling what all is wrong with it but it looks to me as if most of the rust is superficial and just needs sanding but I could be wrong. I do see some bad rust like in the headlight bucket and the rocker area but the door and hood and all looks simple. This Z I got the other week is technically my first project car thats more than 10 years old. And yes that is what I meant when I said I dont mind doing some more simple repair.

All in all the guy wont budge. I told him what I would give him for the car and he said no. He has e-mailed me twice asking if I want the car. I ask him if hes ready to make a deal and he insists its worth $1,500. It dont even seem like he has that much attachment to the car, he just honestly thinks its worth that much.

So Im done and willing to use the money on things pertaining to my other Z.

Edited by jwerner2
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You might consider finding other cars in similar condition to his on Craigslist in other cities and email the listings to him.

I guarantee that nobody will be asking what he is asking for the a 280 or even 260 in that condition. I think $600-$700 would be a considerably fair price for that car in it's condition, seeing as how I paid what I did for my 240 that drove home.

A bit of advice from someone who restores cars for a living;

If you buy an S30, you can expect rust. Don't let it scare you. Get a decent MIG and practice on some old body panels. Go slow. Don't stitch more than one inch at a time and move around the panel. I use a cold, oily rag to quench each weld and if needed, hammer on dolly on the weld area until it's in the desirable shape before moving on to prevent warping.

The floor pans in these cars are coated in this sound deadening insulation sheet that was adhered to the floor pans themselves and then painted over. The adhesive breaks up over time and the sheet of insulation material creates pockets between the floor pan and itself for condensation and other sources of water to become trapped in.

In pictures, it looks like the insulation is part of the floor stamping shape because it is painted over in body color. This can cause problems with the frame rails at the area where they attach to the floor pan. Without high resolution pictures of both the top and bottom sides of the floor pan without carpetting, there really is no good way to determine how rusted a floor pan is.

The good news is that floor pan patches are cheap and probably some of the easiest rust repairs that anyone can make. The gauge of steel is lower (thicker) than the outer body panels and it all gets covered up anyway, so it doesn't have to look perfect if you're not enclined to make it so.

Personally, I wouldn't trust a supposedly rust free original car without having some knowledge of it's history, primarily if it were garage kept or not.

I would actually prefer to repair rust over having an original rust free car, because I know that I can do a better job at preventing it from rusting again than the factory did.

Edited by DaveBonds
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Awesome info and thank you for sharing it!

I also believe you will find rust with just about any car from this period unless its been kept in a vault or restored. Thats why I have no clue why some people are making such a great deal over it. The paint peeled and some rust started to form but it does not look like its rusted through. It looks easily sandable in most spots. I might note that there is a lot of dead leaves on the car and it looks like some of them decayed around the engine bay. I myself thought that was real bad rust at first.

I also see truth to what you say about having a rusted car to restore or repair over a rust free car ( in some situations ). Even if the repair fails you can only blame yourself. I would rather admit to my failure then realize someone conned me into buying a rusted up car that has been covered up.

I had a bad experience like that with a Furry that was handed down to me. It was bought for my Grandmother by my Uncle and then eventually given to me. A rock slung up into the fender well and knocked out a huge hunk of bondo or something exposing a shady repair job that was covered with a good paint job.

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