Jumping in with 2

[ajmcforester]

When you are looking at a restoration project, nearly everything can be restored with enough time and money. The question is it worth doing. The pluses I see is it looks like you have a big shop area to work, have two rusty nearly complete cars that could make one complete car, and it sounds like you have some knowledge and time to invest. Cons you have two rusty cars that need mostly new lower panels, and will more than likely cost more to restore than they are currently worth.

Now if I had a good shop area with a lot of room I'd restore one to original from top to bottom, and if their was enough of the other hotrod it out after restoring the first. The early 240z are the lightest of the z's and I'm always a big fan of light weight cars, power to weight is key to a fast car.

The first thing I'd to is disassemble the car noticing condition of every part and fastener and documenting it. then get the body taken down to solid metal to see how much work is needed to restore the body, that will tell you if you need to find a better shell to use. The nice thing I looks like you have two great parts cars if the body is to far gone to make it worth restoring. Paint is a great protector, but can cover up a lot of rust, so make sure you strip it down before you start welding new panels down you can save your self a lot of heartbreak if you do that.

[ArnieTX]

Good advice from everyone! So many good points and guidence.

I've been going back and forth on this. The more I poke around in these cars the more I find. I just need to commit to car #1 and do like AJM suggested and take it apart down to the metal to see what I have. From the naked eye it's definitely better than car #2. From what I have seen being restored on youtube and other sites, car #1 isn't that bad off. And I don't think waiting around for a better vehicle is the right thing to do. I need to take what I have and run with it. What's the worst thing that can happen if it is beyond repair? I only have $300 bucks in these cars.

I'm going out to my barn to stare at my girls and drink a beer. I'm in the mood.

Thanks

Arnie

[ArnieTX]

Car #2

Arnie

[ArnieTX]

It's almost a tossup. Both need new floors. #2 has rear damage to the thin metal under the bumper.#2 has some surface rust under the battery area where #1 has a pretty big hole. I always thought #2 was worse because of the rusty floorboard holes were bigger. But having to replace both anyway makes it a non issue. #2 has a dent free roof and a better hatch area. Flip a coin at this point.

Arnie

[ajmcforester]

I like that get-er-done attitude that will keep you going for at least 3 months. I'd keep an eye out for a good shell you may have enough left in these two cars to start one good shell and restore one of these. It may be too difficult to restore both. I used to judge Corvettes and for every 85 or higher score their was more than likely 2-3 parts cars to make that one.

Some advise from someone who has restored one and is currently restoring one. Only do what is fun for you, if in isn't fun send it out other wise the car becomes a chore, not entertainment. If someone ever totals your project car don't buy the same type car, mine is about 5 times harder to restore with a better car, you tend to reminisce of your old car (I wish I knew that before otherwise I'd be restoring a 84 Toyota Supra or modifying a 91 twin turbo MR2). I know when I'm done I'll enjoy this car just as much, the satisfaction of fully restoring a car is a great feeling that people that have done it them selves only get.

Edited December 7, 2009 by ajmcforester
typos

[ArnieTX]

The first thing I'd to is disassemble the car noticing condition of every part and fastener and documenting it. then get the body taken down to solid metal to see how much work is needed to restore the body, that will tell you if you need to find a better shell to use.

Can you define "body"? Are you talking about only the outside of the car which gets paint or are you talking about the outside, interior, and underneath areas? My untrained eye thinks the outside is in decent shape, but I'm not experienced in picking out areas that have had work done. My main concerns lie with the areas I cannot see. I think I should pick one of these and remove everything on it and in it until it's just a shell. Then take it to bare metal and see what it needs. I'm a little confused.

I think it would be a good experience to remove everything off of the car to see what the body looks like. My biggest fear is figuring out how to put it back together. I would have a template for that though in the other car.

So, should I run with car #2 and take everything off?

Thanks everyone for answering my NOOB questions.

Arnie

Edited December 7, 2009 by ArnieTX
reword

[ajmcforester]

Since it is a uni-body car their is no frame the body would be the cab area or any part welded or strongly connected to cab. The floors, inner fenders, rocker panels . . . for examples. Body panels would be like the front fenders.

Two things you want is the factory service manual and the factory parts book these two books will help a great deal and you can get them from Curtsy (sp?) Nissan in Texas they are online. This will give you ways to reference what cars by production date will match your car with diagrams of the car and other important specs.

The other thing you will want is some system to keep things organized. I actually use zip-lock bags index cards and measure every fastener and give a number for the diagram for location, for example. Keeping the parts organized will help when putting it back together. Placing fasteners in a bucket with no way to tell where they go will cost so many hours that many times cars never get done. If the fasteners are not organized it would cost more for a restoration shop to do than if you gave it to them in the first place, don't worry even if you just put front fender bolts in one bag and break them down by section of the car it isn't that bad to get them in the right spot. I'm actually going to have all the fasteners replated measurements and details will get them back in the right bags for assembly

I would only take apart the car you are trying to restore that way you can use the other car for reference. The only time I might take the other car apart is that the other car was worse off and wanted to see if the body on the other was any better.

[ajmcforester]

By the way what are you looking for with the car a nice driver, fully restored to original car, race car . . .? This will send you down different paths, and be honest some people will restore all to new like original, other less intense something to take to the local small car show and drives around the countyside. I want to keep mine mostly original with some vintage aftermarket parts, like how I would have done the car in the early 70's, and I'm going for high detail, but I will keep a lot of the patena (sp?) that came with age. My thought is if I wanted a new car I would go down to the dealership and bought one. That was why I don't judge Corvettes anymore you would take points off for discoloration of aluminum parts for example, and it took 30 years to get that look. What ever you like do it to your tast, and don't look back

[dustin_haru]

i agree with the last post.. know what type of car you as a builder want to make. a race car or a cruzer. for me i would think that dumping one car would be a waste. i would concetrate on one and then build the other.. once everythign is compleated on ur first then i would plan on making a aftermarket race car out of the other.

i wouls sugest bre for a good look.. they make some nice looking cars.

[ajmcforester]

i agree with the last post.. know what type of car you as a builder want to make. a race car or a cruzer. for me i would think that dumping one car would be a waste. i would concetrate on one and then build the other.. once everythign is compleated on ur first then i would plan on making a aftermarket race car out of the other.

i wouls sugest bre for a good look.. they make some nice looking cars.

He does have the right combo for that the lightest bodies and the rare z

[ArnieTX]

ajmcforester

I have both of those manuals and I like how you explained the organization part of it. I'm looking at the exploded dash view now and all the parts are numbered so as I take them out, I can label and put them in the appropriate little baggy, etc. Thank you for that tidbit. That definitely took a little of my process worries away.

I want a 240z that is close to stock but has some simple upgrades that take advantage of later technology like toyota brakes, better ignition system, etc. I want it to be dependable and easy to work on, and I want it to be quick. It doesn't need to top out at 140 but I want it to get after it in the first 3 gears. I loved the kick in the pants up to ~ 90MPH my 77' and 78' models used to give me.

I bought some jacks stands, floor jack, and a creeper this evening. I'm going to get an 1/2 impact tomorrow when I go to town. Besides the basic hand tools that I already have, is there anything else I can get that would make my life easier when I start taking one of these cars apart? Having the right tool for the job is key, just not sure what that tool is.... I'm borrowing an engine stand and hoist from a friend.

Once I get the cars jacked up tonight and get a better look underneath, I'll decide which one to cover and which one to chew on. After that I'm going to write out my plan on paper. As suggested, I'll develop groups and plans for each.

Thanks for the help.

Arnie

[ajmcforester]

Yes their are tools you will need. One thing I recommend to use 6 point sockets they do less damage to the head of nuts and bolts. If you plan to use the original style of carbs first find a British car specialist they can teach you how to tune SU carbs (infact when you get the car together have him set the carbs for the first time). He will direct you to get a airflow meter, and some type of exhaust meter, you will need it to get the two carbs to sink-up well. I have a lot of fun with these carbs differnt oils in the pots make them act different and so on; you can really tune them to your driving style.

Also the early 240z like yours and mine are faster than a 280z. The 280 was heavier and restricted by head disign and emmision control. For natural aspirated heads the E31 is the best, you can modify them to get more power I've heard of machining to get 280z valves in, but they will tap the cylinder walls.

To wake it up and keep an original look under the hood try to find a JDM or Canadian exhaust manifold the have larger openings and no smog-pump plugs. These sell really cheap but you pay in shipping (about 25-28lb). If you look at them you'll notice they have good flow. try to get the down pipe to match, a least the top half of it. I'd also recommend not going bigger than 2.25" on the exhaust unless you will be increasing the intake volume or using two mufflers with some restrictions. Remember you have no cat you have less restrictions. I had this setup on my first 240z with a magnaflow muffler it sounds great and not that noisy. Also if you go to 15" rims tires get cheap it brings them to a Honda size, tip on custom rims it take .25" spacer to fit Honda rims they can look up what the back spacing is from that.

You will be happy for ease to work on the 240 has a lot more engine room than the 280 you just have more maintenance jobs over a 280.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ajmcforester