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Por-15 or Rustbullet...?


Bart Hoedemaker

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Soon my 240's bodywork will be completed and i need to put protection to it. I'm still doubting on both brands. How rough finish do both have? Rustbullet claimes to be better than Por-15.

And somebody knows how to order Rustbullet, since i'm from the Netherlands. There's no salespoint here, it is for Por-15.

Can somebody who has used on of these products remmond me some?

Bart. :)

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Bart,

Tell us more about the state of your body steel. Is it bare steel that you are wanting to coat? If so neither product you mentioned is the way to go. They both almost "require" some rust to be "effective".

If you put down a moisture cure urethane at the steel level, the automotive paint supplier you choose will not do anything for you should anything fail in the future because of a product not of their manufacture.

I'd very much suggest you start building from the steel up with a total automotive paint system.

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Bruce,

You can find pictures in my topic. It's part new ( factory zinked plate ) and old metal. I don't quite get your point, can you explain better? I need some good paint that seals de body of the car. I do not mean the outside plate work, like the doors and fenders etc. But the shell of the car.

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Are you talking about the back side of those panels, inside the doors, fenders, etc.?

The point of going with a complete system from the steel out, is that if you have totally prepped steel, i.e. no rust, the automotive system will do fine and you will have no incompatibility (adhesion, lifting, etc) issues one coating to the next.

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I used POR on all bear metal on my Z when I had her all apart. I did not use it on the outside metal like the finished side of the fenders or doors . Only on the floors both inside the car and under the car, Inside the frame rails and inside the rear fenders and doors. Basically every where the car was not to be finished with the color and clear. Where I did use the POR on door jams and in the engine bay that was going to be painted with color and clear, I covered the Por paint with there tycoat primer first. Then when the car was ready for finish , shot it with the PPG products , regular finishing products. One thing , POR paint is SO hard when cured that if you get ANY in a threaded hole. Use a tap first , don't even try to run a bolt in the threads. I used POR on my gas tank and front suspension also. It flows out like it was sprayed on. Do not buy cans larger than 1 QT because it effected by the moisture in the air and will start setting up in the can. Clean it off your skin with lacquer thinner but do not thin the paint with it. POR has there own thinner if you think you need it. ALWAYS prep the metal with POR marine clean and there Metal ready following instructions. If you try to short cut the process it paint vary likely will just peal off in short order. I did my car 5 years ago and have had zero failure so far and I have put about 15,000 miles on the car. One additional thing , once POR is cured . Nothing I know of will touch it let alone remove it , other that a body grinder. Gary

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Ok i c... So Por would be the best choice for good sealing. A man from my work also works with odltimers, and he said just use normal primer and paint for the shell, and don't drive it in the winter. But i won't think that puts much protection, and there are little stones etc on the road, that's where the original tar layer is for.

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Bart:

Regardless of which rust protection product you use, first and foremost....preparation.

POR, Zero-Rust, Rust-Bullet, Neutra Rust, et al, all will "clause" that surface preparation is important for proper adhesion. By "Clause", I mean that they'll excuse failure of their product based on poor preparation. And this is fair, because it wasn't their product that failed, it was the poor preparation.

So, if the instructions call for removal of "loose rust", they're suggesting wire-brushing as a minimum. If they suggest removing "rust scale", they're recommending scraping and possibly some wire brushing. There are opponents and proponents of sand-blasting. Some will advocate carbide, others will advocate soda, some will caution totally against it.

The key there is to adhere to their suggestions / warnings.

Where I've used POR and have had very satisfactory results, I have heard good things about people that have used Zero Rust and Rust Bullet both.

I myself, have not used either one, so all I can say is that based on what I've read, both instructions as to "how" to use it and other postings on their web-site, I found that their procedures and cost were more than I was willing to subject myself to.

With that being said, POR does require some careful use. When they mean "open air" they're really recommending a Breather Mask with a good prefilter and carbon filter. The stuff DOES have cyanide (it's an isocyanate) in it's formulation. Meaning it exudes some very nasty vapors which you do NOT want to breathe in.

The good side to this paint is that it sets ... H A R D. Hard enough that as Gary pointed out, you have to TAP new threads into any holes you may get the paint into. This is not a joke. Yet, it also stays flexible. I painted a pair of gas tank straps. When I went to install them onto the car, I had to bend them to get them to fit. After several attempts at fitting them, I discovered I had the wrong set (for a later year). I removed the straps and straightened them out. The paint did NOT crack nor peel off anywhere.

Personally, I applied it mostly to bare steel. I had prepared the metal using a combination of items before I started painting. I sandblasted, wire-brushed, ground, welded, scraped, Acetone, Mineral Spirits (paint thinner) etc. However, I applied their Marine Clean with both a disposable paint brush, and also with scotch pads to ensure I had a super grease free surface and then I used their Metal Ready to etch the metal.

That Metal Ready is an acid. It is critical to the process of ensuring proper adhesion to the metal....bare or rusted. Keep the metal wet for 15-30 minutes and it does a superb job of neutralizing the rust that's still there while giving the steel some "tooth" to grip. Even automotive primers require an etching primer to adhere properly to bare steel.

Once you apply the POR you can brush, spray or roll, and generally only one good coat is required. If you choose to re-coat, do it within the curing period (check the surface and see if your finger "drags" as it moves along, if so it's fine. No drag ... you waited too long; you squish the surface ... too soon). If you wait till it cures you need to scuff soundly in order for the next layer of POR to adhere. If you're going to top-coat, you MUST use their TieCoat primer (which IS sandable and will allow other automotive type paints to adhere).

If you choose to add undercoating to the underside after all the POR work, just apply it as the factory did. You can use Body Shuutz (I may have misspelled it), or something out of a spray can. It will adhere as long as you follow the instructions. While the POR is hard enough to accept those occasional rock dings, the undercoating will do wonders for silencing the road noise out of the sheet metal.

I hope to work on another car later this year and next, and possibly give one of the other products a try, and then give a more balanced "report".

Hope this helps

E

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Bill is spot on with that caution.

If you do get some on your skin, use lacquer thinner right away to cut it and remove it. If you wash your hands with water.... it will SET and set HARD. You'll have to wait till your skin sheds it.

Good Reminder Bill.

E

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The thinner wont take it all the way off. But it cuts it so it wont get hard.

Are you talking about regular paint thinner or lacquer thinner? That stuff will take the skin off your hands if you leave it on too long!

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I'm referring to using Lacquer Thinner. Never had it not remove it all the way. In fact, that's what I use to clean up my spray nozzles for when I spray the POR into crevices.

Never had it remove any of my skin, but then again, I just moisten the rag and then wipe.

E

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I used SEM Rust Shield on mine. It's half the cost of POR 15 and works just as good. I'm painting all unseen areas with it. As said, this paint sets HARD. You may want to put a junk bolt in a hole and paint around it or you'll wind up using a tap to get rid of the paint.

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Brian:

Not to deny that SEM works well, but unless you've used BOTH SEM and POR and done comparative testing, the phrase "works just as good" is misleading.

Also you've recently been posting about using Rustoleum for your engine bay, which leads me to question your statement about SEM. Why would you be changing brands?

For this to be balanced, in order for Bart to make a sound decision, wouldn't it be better if those who HAVE used Zero-Rust or Rust Bullet to make their point known? That also applies to other products, as Brian has regarding SEM. However, comparative remarks should be by those who HAVE used both or more products, otherwise it's not a true comparison.

That's why I'm looking to use a different product on the next Z I do, to be able to say which one I liked better, which one was easier to work with, apply etc.

Just my 2¢

E

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Not to be too self serving here, but I'd be willing to provide a link (if any of you would be interested) to a heads up test done several years ago comparing Zero Rust and POR on the motor mounts on a salt water fishing boat. This test was done by a body man who was at the time a POR dealer and was trying to satisfy himself about the viability of Zero Rust vs POR.

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Bruce; Go for it. Objective views are exactly what we need to read.

As I've stated, I've not used other products, and as such, I don't think it's fair to denigrate them nor to imply something else is "just as good".

As an Air Force Supply guy (Inventory Management Specialist 64570) one of the key things we were trained to look for were "Or Equal" items that a) did the same job/ function and B) were (ideally) less expensive. Sometimes you had to weigh one or the other over the other, depending on the current budget situation. Ideally, you had an actual test to determine suitability, and if not, you looked for testimonials from sources that were at "arms length". (i.e. not directly involved in benefiting)

So, show the link and maybe down the road when I'm doing the next Z you'll let me give some of the product a try or ..... (hint, hint) (and hey, I'm just as cheap as the rest of you guys).

E

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Brian:

Not to deny that SEM works well, but unless you've used BOTH SEM and POR and done comparative testing, the phrase "works just as good" is misleading.

Also you've recently been posting about using Rustoleum for your engine bay, which leads me to question your statement about SEM. Why would you be changing brands?

For this to be balanced, in order for Bart to make a sound decision, wouldn't it be better if those who HAVE used Zero-Rust or Rust Bullet to make their point known? That also applies to other products, as Brian has regarding SEM. However, comparative remarks should be by those who HAVE used both or more products, otherwise it's not a true comparison.

That's why I'm looking to use a different product on the next Z I do, to be able to say which one I liked better, which one was easier to work with, apply etc.

Just my 2¢

E

Ahh the internet, where everything you say is over analyzed by information heros like yourself to make you look like the guy who knows everything. It seems every forum has a troll like you who puts down people to make themselves look better. You're arguing about what brand of paint I use!!!!! RIDICULOUS!!! I've stopped posting on virtually all boards I used to because of people like you. So please STFU before you drive anymore people from here. This is the last post I'm every making here so I don't care if I get banned- Escanlon- **** you troll!!!!

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Bart, I have no idea what type of rust preventive coatings are available where you live, but I do know that the shipyards are constantly fighting the rust monster and could probably direct you to some top notch products. I don't believe these coatings are cost effective or easily shipped.

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Bart.

Geezer steered you right. Find a boat yard full of steel fishing boats and start asking what they use. For what you are doing, a quart of whatever ought to do you. If your steel is fully prepared white metal, anything should work. If you have existing rust you are going over, make sure whatever you end up using is "surface tolerant".

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How's old Bart doing coming up with some paint for his "frame"? I'm thinking he kinda got lost in the shuffle.

Bart, I can't get you some Zero Rust either....... Nyuck nyuck.....

Frame, I just meaned the shell or body off the car, I don't know all English!! As i'm Dutch.

Bruce: allright, and yes there's a shipyard just 2 km away from here, I allready know what they use, that's not so good idea i think. This is a car not a boat.

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