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Arne

Loop pile carpet, any recent purchases? (2008)

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dannys240z,

Please keep us updated on the progress results of you carpet install.

I will be doing the same exercise on my 72 240Z in June (I hope)

Jay

zdisease

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So I noticed where Jim (Zup) had asked if anyone had checked with Chester and Herod in post #87, and it seemed like no one had. I took a look at their site and came across this page http://autockm.com/testimonials.html. In the top right column it says 'One of Chamber's more exciting moments came in 1970 when he created replacement floor mats for Datsun's then-secret 240Z car. After making the mats, he was promptly asked to keep his mouth shut. 'Only five people in the country knew about (the 240Zs),' Chambers said.' I later noticed that in post #98 Bryan Pilati said "Okay I had a talk with Les. ...The first Z's imported came with rubber mats only, and Mr K had carpet kits made by Chester & Herod using the rubber mats as templates. ...." In post #104 Bryan also said "First off, the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats. When the first ones arrived, Mr K had carpet made, and only later did the factory supply them."

I contacted C&H and their story jives with what Bryan said. Just before the Z was introduced Nissan showed a completed car to some Datsun dealers on the West Coast and the car only had rubber mats. The dealers said the car would not sell like that in the US. Since one of the LA dealers had worked with C&H previously, Nissan contacted them and wound up having them make carpet sets using the rubber mats as templates. According to C&H's owner these were made of loop carpet and used in the first 1800 or so cars. I sent them some pictures of the rubber mats from #32 and they confirmed that those were the mats their templates were based on. I also confirmed that they would make the rear cutouts for the cargo straps on the hatch carpet, and for the accelerator and clutch pedal stops on the drivers mat. I asked about getting the loop with the clear rubber backing and they said it would be too thick for their edge binding machines (that didn't make sense to me given that the original carpet sets had bound edges and they had the clear rubber backing). Anyway, I thought it couldn't be too hard to find some kind of clear rubberized backing I could put on myself. I had them send me a set of carpet samples for the regular loop, pile, and wool loop and pile materials. The regular loop and pile materials seem similar to what everyone else uses and I was quoted $195 for a set (plus shipping of $26). The wool pile is very nice, but expensive (I was quoted $525 for a set plus shipping). The wool loop is some sort of a square weave and is not the right color (it is also $525 for a set plus shipping). C&H said that the carpets come with a padding that sounds like the same thread type stuff that others use and that they just glue it on after the carpet is made. C&H said they do not supply carpet to TIR and only supply Z carpet to CDM when a customer asks for wool or colored carpet, otherwise it sounds like Les uses some cheaper mass manufacturer.

I ordered a set of the loop pile and told them to leave the additional padding off. My carpet set arrived last week, and to my surprise, it already had a rubber coating on the back. I called C&H and apparently they ordered a more expensive higher grade loop type because it came in a wider size. It came with the rubber backing and they realized they would be able to edge bind it after all. Even though the carpet material was quite a bit more expensive ($56 per yard vs $9 per yard for the cheap stuff), they gave me the price they quoted, but said that future orders of that carpet would be about $265 per set plus shipping. The carpet has the cutouts as promised and the rear carpets are correct for a 1969/early 1970 (based on the rubber mats). The carpet has snaps already installed on the floor mats and came with two sets of the snap based to install in the car if needed. They had also cut slits in the top of the hatch carpet for the cargo straps by cutting straight down from the top a couple of inches and then making small 90 degree cuts on either side. We hadn't discussed that, and I wasn't really thrilled that they cut through the edge binding to do that, but it looked like it laid flat and wouldn't be noticeable when installed. Overall, the carpet looked great, but I had to wait until last weekend to install it. When I did, I noticed it was a little longer in some places then I was expecting and that caused a few fitment issues I had to correct. On early cars, the top of the hatch carpet goes under the plastic edge on the top of the rear shelf. Even after folding the carpet up the rear shelf lip it was about 1/2' too long, so I cut that much off, since it is hidden by the plastic edge guard anyway. The front mats are a little longer than the other ones I have, but they fit fine. The rear carpets were a little long in some areas of the seat support cutouts, and they would work ok, since that area is not visible, but they didn't lay as flat as I would like. I discussed with C&H and they said if I trimmed them up and sent them back they would rebind the edges, so I did that this week. I am also buying a second set of these carpets, and they will use the trimmed set as templates for the second set and ship them all back together. I also told them not to make the slits in the hatch carpet this time.

I asked about making and binding slits in the front mats and they said that they couldn't do that because it was too difficult for their machines. I didn't need that for my 1969 cars, since they used velcro in the back of the front mats because the cars don't have the metal clip that later cars do. Given my experience with the rear hatch slits they may make the front mat slits the same way, so anyone ordering later carpets with slits may just want to confirm that prior to ordering or just cut them yourself. I also asked about the rear carpets and tried to verbally confirm that the carpets for 1971 and later cars use a different template and have a slit that is then sewn together to fit the wheel well curve. It sounds like that is the case, but someone else interested in that style should confirm it by sending them a picture or something. It sounds like they are also open to making carpet sets based on paper templates, so you may be able to trace a template for your car and ask them to use that. It sounds like they are already a very busy place. It normally takes them 5-9 working days to complete a set, as long as they have the material in stock.

I am attaching several pictures I took last weekend. I'll post some more pics when I get the new and rebound set back from C&H next week if anyone is interested.

-Mike

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In post #104 Bryan also said "First off, the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats. When the first ones arrived, Mr K had carpet made, and only later did the factory supply them."

I contacted C&H and their story jives with what Bryan said. Just before the Z was introduced Nissan showed a completed car to some Datsun dealers on the West Coast and the car only had rubber mats. The dealers said the car would not sell like that in the US.

Mike,

Whilst I applaud your pro-active efforts to get close to the original story, and the original spec for the early USA cars, can I please make a point here?

You quote Brian Pilati's statement that "...the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats." as though you believe it to be true. I think repeating such statements gives them more weight, and they gradually get taken as gospel.

As I previously pointed out in this thread, the Z most certainly was designed with carpets. In fact, both fully carpeted and rubber-matted versions were available from launch. The distinction of course is that Brian Pilati's quoted quote applies to the first HLS30-U models that were sent to the United States and to Canada. It does not apply to "the Z" in general, and especially not to the Japanese home market models - which were just as much a part of the "design" as any others.

Can we PLEASE remember to make this distinction when talking about the "design" of these cars, and the peculiarities and specs of different market models?

Apologies for the interjection.

Alan T.

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Alan, please don't take too much offense at this, but I find your frequent reminders about the world-wide nature of the S30 somewhat tiring, especially when posted in a thread whose context (like this one) is almost solely US-spec 240Z centered. A large portion of this thread has been discussing the particular oddities of the carpets as delivered in the US 240Zs. In that context, Mr. Pilati's statement was correct. For you to grab it out of context, and then 'correct' it can appear petty and almost spiteful.

Frankly, I am in awe of the breadth of your knowledge on the S30s, and have learned much from your posts here. But at times, your efforts to broaden discussions that started as US-240Z topic into a world-wide topic seems somewhat off-base.

My opinion only. I don't expect others to agree.

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Alan,

I do agree with you that the Z was designed for a global market. I viewed this thread as being soley related to the discussion of carpet in North American models, which is what my comments were based on. I do appreciate the global perspective that you and others on this site provide. However, I think you need to give those of us in the US a little leeway and realize that generally unless we are specifically citing cars outside of our market we are only referencing North American models. Maybe I need to include a disclaimer in any future posts regarding that.

-Mike

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Arne and Mike,

I understand where you are coming from, and I apologise if my posts become "tiresome" - but can you both see where I am coming from?

This is a forum dedicated to a Japanese car, and - at least notionally I believe - an international forum. Of course I understand the natural weight of bias is towards one particular perspective. It goes without saying.

But quoting a bald statement about the "design" of the Z that is clearly erroneous is - I believe - to perpetuate a myth. Can you imagine how these things look to the owner of a non-USA market car? Can we all imagine how it might look to the people that designed, engineered and manufactured these cars?

Now that I've hopefuly made my point, and have received the obligatory put-down, I'll shut up for a while.

Alan T.

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Disclaimer: This information applies to North American 240Z models (HLS30U and HLS30UA) only

We have noted that there were several variations in original 240Z carpet over the years. I thought I would try to compile a summary of the different carpet variations by date range in order to help people that are attempting to obtain accurate reproductions for their specific vehicles. The following is my best guess so far based on carpets I own, and what others have reported in this thread. The date ranges or other details may need to be adjusted further, so please post with VIN or production date (and pictures if possible) if you have any original carpet that doesn't fit this profile.

Type 1: 10/69 – Approx 2/70 (VIN #1800?) – Made by Chester & Herod

Rear deck: Loop pile w/ clear backing, unbound front edge (goes under plastic riser trim), slits for cargo straps not bound

Behind seats: Loop pile w/ clear backing, cut to shape of plastic mats plus entire area under the seats

Front Mats: Loop pile w/ clear backing, no slits at the bottom for metal tabs (uses Velcro instead)

Type 2: Approx 3/70 – Approx 12/70 (Series 1)

Rear deck: Cut pile w/ clear backing, unbound front edge (goes under plastic riser trim), slits for cargo straps not bound

Behind seats: Cut pile w/ clear backing, cut similar to shape of plastic mats but not around seat mounts

Front Mats: Cut pile w/ clear backing, bound slits at the bottom for metal tabs

Type 3: Approx 01/71 – Approx 9/71 (Series 2)

Rear deck: Cut pile w/ clear backing, large slit in front edge (which is fully bound) for tool bin access (carpet does not go under plastic riser trim), cargo straps mounted on top of carpet and either small holes or a small slit in carpet for mounting screws

Behind seats: Cut pile w/ clear backing, slits cut and resewn to mold to rear wheel wheels

Front Mats: Cut pile w/ clear backing, bound slits at the bottom for metal tabs

Type 4: Approx 10/71 – 07/73 (Series 3 and 4)

Rear deck: Loop pile w/ rough grey backing, large slit in front edge (which is fully bound) for tool bin access (carpet does not go under plastic riser trim), cargo straps mounted on top of carpet and either small holes or a small slit in carpet for mounting screws

Behind seats: Loop pile w/ rough grey backing, slits cut and resewn to mold to rear wheel wheels, additional slit cut and resewn in middle of section under passenger seat

Front Mats: Loop pile w/ rough grey backing and thin brown jute layer sewn on underside, bound slits at the bottom for metal tabs

The part numbers for carpet according to the June 1974 USA & Canada Parts Catalog are listed below. Some of the dates seem to match up with what we have observed, but others do not.

Part #74901-E4601 Assy-Trim Front Floor RH Black (Carpet) 10/69 to 08/71

Part #74901-E8800 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) 09/71 to 06/72

Part #74901-N3300 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) 07/72 to 01/73

Part #74901-E4600 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Resin) 10/69 to ????

Part #74901-E8801 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (F/Rest Carpet) 11/71 to 06/72

Part #74901-E8802 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (F/Rest Resin) 01/72 to ????

Part #74901-N3302 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (F/Rest Carpet) 07/72 to ????

Part #74902-E4601 Assy-Trim Front Floor LH Black (Carpet) ???? to 08/71

Part #74902-E8800 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) 09/71 to 06/72

Part #74902-N3300 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) 07/72 to 01/73

Part #74902-N3304 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) 02/73 to ????

Part #74902-E4600 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Resin) ???? to 01/73

Part #74902-N3306 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Resin) 02/73 to ????

Part #74907-E4600 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Resin) ???? to 12/70

Part #74907-E8201 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Resin) 01/71 to ????

Part #74907-E4601 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) ???? to 12/70

Part #74907-E8300 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) 01/71 to ????

Part #74907-E8800 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) ???? to ????

Part #74907-E8802 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) ???? to ????

Part #74907-N3300 Assy-Trim Rear Floor RH Black (Carpet) (CG-403) 07/72 to ????

Part #74908-E4600 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Resin) ???? to 12/70

Part #74908-E8201 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Resin) 01/71 to ????

Part #74908-E4601 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) up to 12/70

Part #74908-E8300 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) 01/71 to ????

Part #74908-E8800 Assy-Trim Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) ???? to ????

Part #74908-N3300 Assy-Mat Rear Floor LH Black (Carpet) (CG-403) 07/72 to ????

Part #74950-E4100 Assy-Mat Rear Floor Black (Resin) ???? to 12/70

Part #74950-E8201 Assy-Mat Rear Floor Black (Resin) 01/71 to ????

Part #74950-E4600 Assy-Mat Rear Floor Black (Carpet) ???? to 12/70

Part #74950-E8300 Assy-Mat Rear Floor Black (Carpet) 01/71 to ????

Part #74950-E8800 Assy-Mat Rear Floor Black (Carpet) ???? to ????

Part #74950-N3300 Assy-Mat Rear Floor Black (Carpet) (CG-403) 07/72 to ????

-Mike

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Does anyone have the dimensions of the heel pad on the "original" series 1 carpet?

Thanks,

Keith

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On 4/29/2010 at 9:58 AM, zed2 said:

Does anyone have the dimensions of the heel pad on the "original" series 1 carpet?

Thanks,

Keith

.Keith, I tried to lift the demensions from a photo of an original driver's side carpet.  The top photo is my efforts at reproducing this carpet with 

heel pad.  The second photo is of an original carpet with heel pad.  The demensions I came up with are 7" by 11".  I got the heel pad from

Jim at Chester and Herod.  It was actually twice as big as needed, so I cut it into two pieces and shaped the cut edge to match the other 

finished edges, if that make sense to you.  It was close to the original profile and light enough in thickness to allow machine sewing easily

to the carpet.  Many heel pads are very thick and heavy for the weight of carpet used to make a good reproduction.

Hope this helps.

Dan

 

 

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Dan,

Thank you for the update. Having read/reread this thread offer the years it would appear that there is no one who makes a repro kit that is accurate "right out of the box". Maybe someday an enterprising Z enhauasist would pick up the torch and coordinate a group buy on an kit.

Keith

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2008 at 10:14 PM, Mike B said:

Front Mats: Loop pile w/ clear backing, no slits at the bottom for metal tabs (uses Velcro instead)

Mike,

1) Is the hook and loop (Velcro) sewn to the front (and rear???) carpet or is the stick on type of hook and loop?

2) Which part of the Velcro, the hook (rough side) or the loop (smooth side) is sewn to the carpet?  The other side would be glued to the metal floor.)


Thanks,
Keith

Edited by zed2
Elaboration of post

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Mike,
Is the Velcro sewn to the front (and rear???) carpet or is the stick on type of Velcro?
Thanks,
Keith
I'll have to check and get back to you. Maybe this weekend.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Classic Zcar Club mobile

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I have been using the carpets from Auto Custom Carpets for many years now. Available in cut and loop. Yes, they have the correct whipped edge binding. Only drawback, the have modern gray underlayment glued to the carpet.

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