#305 on Ebay

[Carl Beck]

I don't know if this is general knowledge in the Z community, but 17th just traded and she is headed my way ....

Speaking of which - I'll be gone this Monday through Wednesday...headed up North to accompany #17 back to the body shop here in Florida. ;-) You going to meet us at ZRush's again?

later,

Carl

[John Coffey]

As Carl has posted above, there are maybe ten 240Zs in the US that are worth $50K or more. That list includes the Bob Sharp cars and the Frissel car. All the others can be pruchased, given some time and patience, for under $40K. The serious car resotoration/auction players are just starting to eye the 240Z but the financials just don't work out yet.

If its going to take $50K (including the purchase price) to end up with a Barret Jackson auction quaility car and you can't get more then $40K for the car, the money is better spent on restoring and auctioning a Z28. That's where the money is going right now.

[Mckrack]

I completely disagree with Mr. Becks opinion about the Program Cars being the market leaders. I have seen some pictures of some of those cars and most of them have flaws. As a matter of fact Nissan should never have contracted the 3 shops to do the cars at all.

[26th-Z]

Nissan contracted with four shops.

Carl,

Yes that's the plan. Vicky said something like Wednesday the 27th.

[Mckrack]

Oh 4 shops please name them. Thank you

They could have contracted with 10 shops. None of them did the correct job and that is why the program went under. That and because Nissan didn't make any money on the cars and ran out of parts. The shops didn't make any money either. The only thing it did do is get some folks interested in the 350 Z car they were developing.

Anyway I stand by my thought process on this one. I think the most valuable ones will be the correct 69 restored cars not a series one or two car restored by some outside shop with the wrong seats and wrong carpets etc. with a trumped up Nissan certificate of authenticity when in reality the cars didn't even get to see the front door of the Nissan Plant.

[HS30-H]

If you want to be in the second most exclusive group of 69 Z owners, you have to be in the "Teen Z Club" - find #00018 and you will be one of four in that group. Of course if you want to be in the most exclusive group of 69 Z owners you have to own #6, #7 or #8..... and you will be one of the three "Single Digit Z" owners - in which case you have the right to hold a single digit to everyone else in the club... The single digit held up denotes both the fact that you have a VIN with a single significant digit - or "1" denoting the $100,000.00+ you have to pay to get it.

Oh dear. 'The Z World' seems to have retreated to the confines of USA territory again.

"Second most exclusive group of 69 Z owners"? Ha ha. Any 1969 production 'HLS30' is going to be in at least the fourth 'most exclusive' group ( and maybe even lower ) by my reckoning. If you want to prove me wrong, you'll have to come up with the numbers of 1969 production S30, PS30 and HS30 prefixed body numbers still extant. I won't be holding my breath.

Given the fact that only 38 Vintage Z's were completed; and the Vintage Z's additional significant place in the History of the Z Car, I believe that they will be the real price leaders in the Collector Z Car Community. At present 143 1969 production year 240-Z's have been found.... and there is no way of telling how many of them have been or will be fully restored, but chances are good that it will be far more than 38 over time.

As I keep reminding you ( and you keep ignoring ) the real "price leaders in the Collector Z Car community" are certain cars in Japan that your "Serious Collectors" in the USA ( ha ha ) have not yet added to their collections.

Alan T.

[Carl Beck]

Oh yea gad... it never ends.

This entire thread has been about the 240-Z's offered for sale here in North America.... I see no reason for you to attempt to hijack the thread - yet again - to turn the subject of discussion to the few Z's sold in Japan.

Nor do I see any reason that within the context nor subject of this discussion thread - I should have to make all manor of disclaimers, exceptions, nor references to, any other vehicles outside the context of the current discussion.

If you would like to discuss the resale market and cars in Japan - please start another thread related to that subject.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[HS30-H]

Oh yea gad... it never ends.

I know how you feel. Almost every time I see you writing about these Japanese cars.

This entire thread has been about the 240-Z's offered for sale here in North America....

Only up until the point that you started waxing lyrical about 1969 production year Z cars, and writing about ".....the 69 Z owners..." and "...the Collector Z Car Community...." without qualifying the fact that you were only referring to one market model and one market. After that the thread was fair game for a little reminder that these are Japanese cars we are talking about here.

I see no reason for you to attempt to hijack the thread - yet again - to turn the subject of discussion to the few Z's sold in Japan.

As is so often the case, you are making my point for me ( thank you! ).

You cannot have your cake and eat it, can you? You can't harp on about rarity and market value for one sector of the first generation Z car family whilst ignoring another sector - equally valid in the design and engineering story - that was, and still is, much rarer and which commands higher resale and insurance values today.

Some of us here are very proud and happy to own some of the "few", and have had the pleasure of the Chief Designer of the 'family' telling us that they were, and are, just as important in the concept, design and engineering processes as the "many".

If you would like to discuss the resale market and cars in Japan - please start another thread related to that subject.

No, I don't need to do anything other than remind you that the first generation S30-series Z cars were a family of models ( designed, engineered and productionised as such ) and were aimed at more than one single market. That's straight from the mouth of the Chief Designer, and backed up by his team. If you are writing about only one market version ( and even then forgetting that the 'HLS30' models were sold in territories other than mainland USA ) then you need to qualify that fact.

It's not difficult. Just a matter of a few extra words. And like me, you don't seem to be short of words and the time to write them.

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

Thank you Alan for bringing up a point that has not been considered. Perhaps we miss the point that there are collector S30s out there that far exceed in value what we have been discussing up to now. Carl is having a debate of opinion over the cars commonly available in the United States and offering his experience of what has been trading and the values associated. Within that realm, he has commented about the current market for collector Z cars in the American market with insight and knowledge which I cannot argue with. Let's keep in mind that the Z has not even hit the radar screen of the showboat extravaganza we see on our television screens.

Back to the original premise; we are discussing what two unrestored, almost junk, low VIN HLS30Us are worth on eBay now and what their potential value might be some day. Although I have never seen the cars, I have heard about them from people who have and I know the seller as well. My opinion is that the asking price is very high, however I see no reason to diss someone for asking. For that matter, if anyone wants to give me $10,000 for 27th, I'll throw in a bottle of the finest tequilla money can buy.

This conversation is a moving target. We cannot establish fact; only comment on observation. We should keep that in mind.

The four shops were:

Pierre Z - primary contractor

Classic Datsun Motorsports

Datsun Alley

Old Car Service

[sblake01]

I think we all knew that we were discussing those two cars on ebay in the US and things in general relative to them. At least for the first 29 posts.

[zpizzaman20]

We have talked about #51 before:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25547

[HS30-H]

I think we all knew that we were discussing those two cars on ebay in the US and things in general relative to them. At least for the first 29 posts.

And who exactly might "we" be?

I suggest you take a closer look at post #23, and think about it's contents from the viewpoint of a person who might well reside outside the borders of the United States of America.

This is an internet forum with members ( and viewers ) from all over the world. If anyone wants to talk in 'definitive' terms about the values of 'Z cars produced in 1969', and "the Collector Z Car Community" ( whatever that is ) then they really ought to make it clear that they are only talking about the 'HLS30U' model and the territory of the United States of America.