Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[kats]

18 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

Had to look at my casting numbers.  HLS30-00026 has engine # L24-02338 casting # 9828A.  HLS30-00027 has engine # L24-02162 casting # 9901D.  26th is a November car.  27th is an October car.

Hi Chris, thanks for sharing your two super early cars engine data . I think

L24-02338 #9828A , 1969 August 28th A .

L24-02162 #9901D , 1969 September 1st D .

It is always an exciting thing to see those rare numbers in our cars !!

Kats

 

[26th-Z]

Hi Kats,

And the same strange situation with the engines: a block cast earlier with a higher machine number than a block cast later (although days later).  I would assume that the engine ID number was assigned when the casting was machined?  What do the 'A' and 'D' mean?

[HS30-H]

12 minutes ago, 26th-Z said:

And the same strange situation with the engines: a block cast earlier with a higher machine number than a block cast later (although days later).  I would assume that the engine ID number was assigned when the casting was machined?

Probably later. Either when the engine was complete and signed-off as OK, and/or when it was assigned to a destination/batch of cars.

Factory replacement/motorsport L24 blocks were supplied machined, but without an engine number. Seems to indicate the above.

 

No real surprise that engine block casting dates/batches didn't match up with assigned engine numbers in a completely linear fashion. Stack up a rack of block castings and they could get mixed fairly thoroughly as they passed through the stages of being cleaned, machined and built up into complete engines. Last on the rack, first off the rack etc. All coming out in the wash over a certain time period. I wouldn't expect very many "Oh! I just found one down the back of the shelf" type scenes.

21 minutes ago, 26th-Z said:

What do the 'A' and 'D' mean?

Batch/shift number I should think? Not enough letters seen for them to be days. Too many to be weeks of the month. QC would want a trace line to help isolate any problem batches.  

[26th-Z]

In today's lingo, that would be called a ghost block.

Makes sense that the alphanumeric digits are casting lots or batches.  I could imagine a number of individual blocks being cast at the same time.  Perhaps position of the mold in the casting process?  But that would assume only one casting process per day.

I see what you mean by the engine number assignment.  Yea, Ok.

[kats]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:21 PM, Gav240z said:

Hi Kats,

I used to think I love them unrestored also, but it really messes with my OCD. Especially because on my white 71 the paint has flaked off in areas. I'm thinking I'll try and patch and touch it up, but leave it as rough and ready as I can, until the day I can't take it anymore and decide to refinish it properly.

The hard part is knowing what parts to restore on it. For example do you replate hardware? Repaint the engine block? Air cleaner? Etc..? Reskin the dashboard?

Hi Gavin, that is a point , what I am thinking to do for my 2146 is , just giving back to life again . Not trying to show in a concourse , just enjoy for my own . Some new parts and old parts are mixed up in a engine bay , it must be weird looking!

Kats

[kats]

Thanks Alan! 
Your input reminds me this , a new engine block from a Nissan parts department , only shows “ S20” on the rear end of the top surface. 
Kats

 

[xs10shl]

This one only goes to 7.5. 

 

 

[xs10shl]

Skip ahead to the noise: https://youtu.be/imsbLkTT9Ac?t=748

 

[HS30-H]

19 hours ago, xs10shl said:

This one only goes to 7.5. 

 

 

Quite a lot to discuss (nitpick) there.....

Worthy of its own thread, I'd say. 

 

[kats]

21 hours ago, xs10shl said:

Skip ahead to the noise: https://youtu.be/imsbLkTT9Ac?t=748

 

Fantastic!!! I enjoyed two videos so much, thank you for sharing .

Personally, for S20 engine ,  I like the sound from engine bay rather than the sound from tail pipes. I would like to hear the sound more of “ moving parts , and turning parts “ .  

Your Z432 is so beautiful , 905 red is the one I always admire .

Kats

 

 

 

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, HS30-H said:

Quite a lot to discuss (nitpick) there.....

Worthy of its own thread, I'd say. 

 

I don't agree with the 'Mercedes engine' (MB design - licensed to Prince - inherited by Nissan after merger with Prince) thing with regard to the L6.

We've taken that apart on this forum in the past:

 

[kats]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:27 PM, HS30-H said:

I don't agree with the 'Mercedes engine' (MB design - licensed to Prince - inherited by Nissan after merger with Prince) thing with regard to the L6.

We've taken that apart on this forum in the past:

 

Hi Alan, that thread is very interesting and the depth of your knowledge is outstanding. 

Japanese engineers had have been learning from overseas from long long time ago , just wonderful.

I am going to have a non smog intake and exhaust system to my #2146 . 
 

Kats

[HS30-H]

8 hours ago, kats said:

Hi Alan, that thread is very interesting and the depth of your knowledge is outstanding. 

That's very kind of you Kats. Thank you.

Japanese engineering of the 19th and 20th centuries is a fascinating topic, mixed up with all kinds of politics and social history. A period of rapid changes with extreme highs and lows. I am intrigued by it.    

[kats]

On 5/23/2022 at 4:12 PM, HS30-H said:

That's very kind of you Kats. Thank you.

Japanese engineering of the 19th and 20th centuries is a fascinating topic, mixed up with all kinds of politics and social history. A period of rapid changes with extreme highs and lows. I am intrigued by it.    

Sometimes I just imagine what they did back in the old days, but I have only limited knowledge about history, only people  who told me about WW2 was my grandparents but both of them were not engineers. I have some books about Mitsubishi Zero fighter. Very interesting to read , it is hard to imagine how they made tons of parts , assembled them and transported them for making so many aircrafts  and ships and weapons,  under the unusual circumstances. Japanese didn’t have much resources (still today) , towards the end of the war , materials were going downgraded, quality of the finished products also went bad , naturally.

By the way , I did dry fitting of the Nissan sports option exhaust system, I am wondering the steering rod from the LHD 240Z would possibly obstruct the pipes . I hope not …

Kats

[Gav240z]

On 5/23/2022 at 5:12 PM, HS30-H said:

Japanese engineering of the 19th and 20th centuries is a fascinating topic, mixed up with all kinds of politics and social history. A period of rapid changes with extreme highs and lows. I am intrigued by it.  

I think anyone who's spent time working on these cars will appreciate how each component is made or engineered. Having pulled apart the OEM AM radio I was fascinated by the engineering in the mechanical tuner and how intricate it all was (before all that kind of thing was digitised), same for the Harada Antenna and even the combination switch for the headlamps etc.. once you've pulled it apart and repaired it, you gain an appreciation for what went into making the product. Especially considering this was all pre computer aided design. The Rally Clock is next level in terms of the oscillator box, I have had several repaired by Ron at ZClocks and I find them as fascinating piece of technology - albeit temperamental. 

[kats]

Hi Gavin, you scored nice original radios and clocks,

I am so surprised that the average price of them are skyrocketing. I was hoping to get one for my second blue 240Z , but I will never be able to get one .
Fairlady Z series didn’t have an automatic seeking system for the early radio . So I cannot look for the one in Japan . 
Maybe I will put my 8 track audio system or just a pocket for my second blue 240Z . 
 

Kats

[kats]

Some work for my second blue 240Z. 
I wanted to see if Datsun 240Z has the same pin hole for the rear gate emblems . I found three holes for “Datsun “ is almost the same ,  only the one on far right needs to be more outside for “ Fairlady Z “ . 
 

“ 240Z “ pin holes position is exactly the same for the “ 432 “ . 
 

Datsun 240Z doesn’t have “ NISSAN “ on the rear gate, so if someone wants to have it , he /she have to measure the original positions then drill the holes.

I am not going to put them on , just checked it for my curiosity.

Kats

Edited May 28, 2022 by kats

[kats]

Transition to the non-US intake manifold, 

I have a donor system which was pulled from a 1972  Fairlady Z (L20 engine model) . I was expecting I only need the balance tube but the water tube of between the two manifolds was so rusty. I decided to replace it with the one  from the donor.

 I snapped the rusty tube , I was lucky the donor is very good. 
 

Today I have learned that when assembling the intake manifold, I have to wait final tightening the bolts on the balance tube until the two manifolds are secured . Also I tightened the two nuts for the water tube after the balance tube was secured .

As some of you are wondering about the two plugs on the balance tube which are not welcome for my 03/1970 car. 
I am thinking about it to look just like an early L-series balance tube.

Kats

Edited May 28, 2022 by kats

[26th-Z]

Very nice exhaust manifold, Kats.  I had the same idea for 26th and installed a 'U98' casting I bought in Australia.  It does not have the dimples for the air injection ports - smooth transition.  I had it ceramic coated so that it would not rust.

[Gav240z]

Does anyone know if you can get replacements for the coolant pipe on the intake manifold? I see you snapped it Kats, as did I on HS30 00150 when I tried to remove it, it was so rusty and fatigued. I don't know if anyone sells replacement parts for them? I've noticed most people block off the coolant running through the intake manifolds.

As @26th-Z points out Australian market cars got the clean balance bar and exhaust manifolds from 1970-73. Which looks a lot cleaner. Often mistakingly referred to as "euro" by a lot of Punters.

[Gav240z]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:25 PM, kats said:

Hi Gavin, you scored nice original radios and clocks,

I am so surprised that the average price of them are skyrocketing. I was hoping to get one for my second blue 240Z , but I will never be able to get one .
Fairlady Z series didn’t have an automatic seeking system for the early radio . So I cannot look for the one in Japan . 

Hi Kats,

I found this 1 today on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Datsun-240Z-AM-Seek-Scan-Radio-70-71-Series-1-OEM-Hitachi-/334457840983

You're right, prices are crazy.

If you really want 1, I am sure I could help. Or perhaps we could swap parts? Please feel free to send me a PM.

[26th-Z]

"Punter".  I have never heard that term.  Thanks for the smile!

[kats]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:16 AM, 26th-Z said:

Very nice exhaust manifold, Kats.  I had the same idea for 26th and installed a 'U98' casting I bought in Australia.  It does not have the dimples for the air injection ports - smooth transition.  I had it ceramic coated so that it would not rust.

Hi Chris, I was thinking about “Her majesty “ , is she originally  non- emissions type intake & exhaust? I believe you told me that before but my memory cannot be clear. Or only without fuel vapor system? 

By the way, I can’t find “ U98 “ models, I only found  E98 which might be related your U98 .My parts catalog says  E98 is a prefix for the parts of RS30 . I guess it’s exhaust manifold might have E98 on it .

My non- emissions type exhaust manifold has “JAPAN E30 “ on it between No.5 and 6 pipes, and also has “ 1 “ between No.1 and 2 pipes .

Also it doesn’t have any thread for bolts to retain the heat duct for the air cleaner.

I saw “ 2 “ version for the non-emissions type , which has two threads for the bolts which is retaining the heat duct for the air cleaner.

E30 exhaust was used for L20 and L24 without emissions devices.

Yes my E30 exhaust has provisions for the air - injection pipes , but only basement. 
 

I see a Fairlady Z at the 1969 Tokyo motor show has the same exhaust manifold on it . 
 

I need to grind the unnecessary humps on the balance tube, to be looked like an early non emissions type ! 
 

Kats

 

[kats]

10 hours ago, Gav240z said:

Hi Kats,

I found this 1 today on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Datsun-240Z-AM-Seek-Scan-Radio-70-71-Series-1-OEM-Hitachi-/334457840983

You're right, prices are crazy.

If you really want 1, I am sure I could help. Or perhaps we could swap parts? Please feel free to send me a PM.

Hi Gavin, I hope you will find the right pipe for your carburetors . It is nice to hear from you had same issue just like me . It seems to me it is not that special pipe , you will be able to buy it at your local “ home depo “ store , will not be ? 
 

Thank you so much for your offer about the radio , I need to make up my mind , I need to set the goal for my #2146 before asking you about it. 
 

It is very fun to think about how I want my cars to be . 
 

Kats 

[26th-Z]

Kats, 26th came originally with air injection type emissions system but no fuel vapor recovery tank.  I do not plan to install the air injection.  I have the non-emission intake balance tube as well.  27th, on the other hand, will have the stock emission system when I get to rebuilding her.

The one good radio I have will go to 27th.  For 26th, I have the optional 8-track / radio.