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Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432


kats

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Posted (edited)

Wow ! Thanks, that is what I have been wondering and waiting to see . Fairlady Z Air conditioner manual said “ you need to buy 68600-E4102 glove box assembly for cars up to S30-01629 . Cars after S30-01629 have already 68600-E4102 “ 

I was wondering what is the difference between them . Now I can see the one you showed us is the early one, and later one  notched both sides for better spacing of the Aircon system . I can see the attached picture excerpt from the Aircon manual , we see notched both sides , this is 68600-E4102 . The ducts from the both end of the dashboard wrapped with thin sponge sheet , and ducting around evaporator need more space I think .

By the way , LHD 240Z has the same glove box? 

Kats

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Edited by kats
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, kats said:

One surprising thing is , those PZR normal springs for normal suspension struts ( PZ & PZR front struts is -E4225 , rear struts is - E4125 ) have softer spring rate . 
This is very interesting!

I was wrong about this , normal Z432-R has the same spring rate as Z432 , just free length is shorter than Z432 . Z432-R is 80 kg lighter than Z432 . To have equal dimensions as a variant of S30 series cars ( floor clearance hight is the same as Z432 , )  , the springs are shortened I think . 
I am talking about this car , a plain , raw , ready for building a race car for your own .From Motor Magazine April 1971.


Kats

I probably can’t use my set of PZR springs because my Z is not light like PZR , the hight will drop slightly. I love Higher posture  like Safari car .

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Edited by kats
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Posted (edited)

We examined my later 1970 S30 Z-L glove box next to a 240Z glove box, and they appeared to be identical, with notches on both sides. I think my Z-L glove box was original, but do not know for sure. It does have factory AC, so the rules you stated would apply.  I cant remember the serial # offhand, as the car has been under restoration since I purchased it, but I will look tomorrow.   I'd still guess that Nissan switched to a single-style glove box at some point during production, for both LHD and RHD cars, so that they were the same.

Bummed to hear that I mangled a rare piece of cardboard.  I'll have to get some material and make a replica - shouldn't be hard to do. 

Edited by xs10shl
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, xs10shl said:

We examined my later 1970 S30 Z-L glove box next to a 240Z glove box, and they appeared to be identical, with notches on both sides. I think my Z-L glove box was original, but do not know for sure. It does have factory AC, so the rules you stated would apply.  I cant remember the serial # offhand, as the car has been under restoration since I purchased it, but I will look tomorrow.   I'd still guess that Nissan switched to a single-style glove box at some point during production, for both LHD and RHD cars, so that they were the same.

Bummed to hear that I mangled a rare piece of cardboard.  I'll have to get some material and make a replica - shouldn't be hard to do. 

If it helps, I created a 3D step model and flat patterns from a 12/70 parts car glove box I have and uploaded the files here. The flat patterns are in acad.dwg format and pdf as well.  It's from a Canadian market LHD car but hopefully it might help.

FYI, I just noticed a typo for the sheet size I noted on the template drawing. It should be 24" wide x 36" tall, scale is 1:1 when printed on that size of sheet.

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Edited by CanTechZ
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Posted (edited)

Thanks CanTechZ ! 
Here is a glove box collections, white chalk marking is fun to look at . Automatic has “トルコン(torque converter) “, Fairlady 240ZG has “H-H “ ( HS30H ) , Z432 has “ PS30” . But you see SP30 , that is definitely a mistake ! 
Kats

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Edited by kats
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7 minutes ago, CanTechZ said:

You're welcome Kats, those chalk marks are interesting. My 7/70 HLS30 has an "A" marking. Any significance? It's not an automatic.

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Wow ! Maybe “ A “ stands for USA ? I can’t wait to go and see my HLS30-02146 which may have an original glove box, my 2156 lost original when its restoration a long time ago . 
 

This is my guess , at Nissan shatai factory , the number of car for USA was so high , so workers didn’t need to distinguish them , they needed to distinguish other destinations and rare model like an automatic . That could be why they just put A for our USA cars ?! 
Kats 

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Posted (edited)

I looked up my parts catalog for tracking the glove box .  LHD model has E4600 , RHD model E4100 at first .

Then both cars have E4102 . When did that change ? I took and reviewed an old data which I have got from Mr.Uemura and Mr.Osawa ( test crew US & CANADA late 69) . Let’s do some calculations.

For S30 series domestic cars,

1969 total was 969 .

1970 Jan 127 , Feb 364 , Mar 378 . Total 1838 cars at that period.

Jul 1970 Aircon manual said cars up to S30-01629 have  to buy 68600-E4102 , after S30-01629 already have 68600-E4102.

Total 1838 S30 cars means that the number included S30/S30S/PS30/PS30SB . 
I guess most of them were S30S ( Fairlady Z ) and S30(Fairlady ZL ) , PS30/PS30SB would be 100 or little more  at that point. S30S and S30 share the same chassis number on the fire wall “ S30-xxxxxx” . 
So, maybe in March 1970 , the glove box changed to have notches on both sides . And why not for LHD model at the same time ?

We need to see a lot of actual glove box for this observation.

I attached a picture of the glove box of a Z432 , PS30-00062 made in Dec 1969 . Only an outboard corner has the notche.

Kats

 

 

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Edited by kats
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15 minutes ago, kats said:

Wow ! Maybe “ A “ stands for USA ? I can’t wait to go and see my HLS30-02146 which may have an original glove box, my 2156 lost original when its restoration a long time ago . 
 

This is my guess , at Nissan shatai factory , the number of car for USA was so high , so workers didn’t need to distinguish them , they needed to distinguish other destinations and rare model like an automatic . That could be why they just put A for our USA cars ?! 
Kats 

Interesting, actually my car is a Canadian market car. It's an HLS30UN model (non emissions). I guess the "A" is still a mystery.

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26 minutes ago, kats said:

I looked up my parts catalog for tracking the glove box .  LHD model has E4600 , RHD model E4100 at first .

Then both cars have E4102 . When did that change ? I took and reviewed an old data which I have got from Mr.Uemura and Mr.Osawa ( test crew US & CANADA late 69) . Let’s do some calculations.

For S30 series domestic cars,

1969 total was 969 .

1970 Jan 127 , Feb 364 , Mar 378 . Total 1838 cars at that period.

Jul 1970 Aircon manual said cars up to S30-01629 have  to buy 68600-E4102 , after S30-01629 already have 68600-E4102.

Total 1838 S30 cars means that the number included S30/S30S/PS30/PS30SB . 
I guess most of them were S30S ( Fairlady Z ) and S30(Fairlady ZL ) , PS30/PS30SB would be 100 or little more  at that point. S30S and S30 share the same chassis number on the fire wall “ S30-xxxxxx” . 
So, maybe in March 1970 , the glove box changed to have notches on both sides . And why not for LHD model at the same time ?

We need to see a lot of actual glove box for this observation.

I attached a picture of the glove box of a Z432 , PS30-00062 made in Dec 1969 . Only an outboard corner has the notche.

Kats

 

 

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Great stats. I had a look at my 1978 North American parts book pdf and like you mention it does show the -E4600 and -E4102 P/N's but no date ranges. Interesting that the picture shows the early version with one notch.

Capture LHD Glove Box.JPG

 

The 1973 JDM parts book pdf I have shows the -E4100 and -E4102 P/N's, and is again pictured with the early single notch, but opposite side. My guess is it was early 1970 when the change to -E4102 with two notches was used for all markets.

Capture RHD Glove Box.JPG

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

Interesting, actually my car is a Canadian market car. It's an HLS30UN model (non emissions). I guess the "A" is still a mystery.

20220301_163208.jpg

Thanks! Yours is Canadian car , so what does “ A “ stand for? 
North “A” merica? Maybe no …
 

What I am thinking about is , to distinguish dashboard must have come from the variation of the wiring (some  for Automatic shift indicator illumination, some for  Four way flasher and / or glove box compartment illumination available or deleted , etc)

gauges (kilometer or mile ) , audio equipment, what else? Maybe caution decal on the inner glove box door (English or Spanish , German etc ) ?

So , Canadian 240Z and USA 240Z , what makes them being different ? If there is no difference between them , glove box markings will be the same . 
 
Then I went to my garage to see how my 03/1970 has the glove box. It has 68600-E4600, but so far I can’t see any chalk markings. 

We need to see more examples!

Kats

 

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Edited by kats
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Posted (edited)

Perhaps someone with an unmolested pre-March 1970 240Z can also chime in with a glove box photo.  It appears that Nissan wised up around April 1970, and replaced the "handed" glove boxes with a universal one that fit both dashboards.

So the corollary to this is that if you have a concours S30 restoration dated roughly pre-April 1970, looks like you'll need the special "handed" glove box.  So I'd better get on with gluing mine back together....

Edited by xs10shl
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28 minutes ago, xs10shl said:

Perhaps someone with an unmolested pre-March 1970 240Z can also chime in with a glove box photo.  It appears that Nissan wised up around April 1970, and replaced the "handed" glove boxes with a universal one that fit both dashboards.

So the corollary to this is that if you have a concours S30 restoration dated roughly pre-April 1970, looks like you'll need the special "handed" glove box.  So I'd better get on with gluing mine back together....

I agree , from my maths I should say around April. I should be realized that , Nissan Shatai  used “ month “ for their change , I can see it in many cases . Given the chassis number , it will indicate beginning of month . 
 

Even not an early one , If there is chalk markings on it , we can’t get rid of it . Let’s repair originals with the method above .

Kats

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I don’t know if this will add to the glove box discussion, but I have this NOS 

glove box with two notches and the bag with “A Glove Box” description on

the parts tag.  There are no chalk marking on the box.

 

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Posted (edited)

Fortune smiles.  I remembered I have a spare S30 dashboard from a car in the 1200's (as I recall), and the original glove box was intact.  Seeing the two boxes that I have side-by-side, I feel that it's likely the glove box I mangled was a high-quality replica (staples are black, among other tell-tale signs), and the intact one is authentic. Pics of the faint lettering from the authentic glove box attached.

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by xs10shl
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Posted (edited)

I found the Z432-R restoration video particularly interesting, in that it shows an interesting body panel makeup unique to this Z432-R (and perhaps other PZR shells as well).  We see some early-style stampings such as the firewall and perforated trunk-area behind the seats, as well as no cross-floor bracing behind the seat mounts, which I think was a very early feature.  And below we see later-style rear 3/4 panels.  These PZR shells were truly custom. Lots to absorb!

 

 

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Edited by xs10shl
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8 hours ago, xs10shl said:

I found the Z432-R restoration video particularly interesting, in that it shows an interesting body panel makeup unique to this Z432-R (and perhaps other PZR shells as well).  We see some early-style stampings such as the firewall and perforated trunk-area behind the seats, as well as no cross-floor bracing behind the seat mounts, which I think was a very early feature.  And below we see later-style rear 3/4 panels.  These PZR shells were truly custom. Lots to absorb!

I'd be wary of using that particular car as any kind of textbook example. The vented quarters don't make sense in context with the rest of the bodyshell. 

In fact, the *opposite* scenario (ie, non-vented quarters on an otherwise 'airflow' type later bodyshell) would be less unusual in PZR terms. Many of the PZR-specific body pressings were made in batches and there were no vented type quarter pressings made for the PZR. There are examples of the early - solid/unvented - PZR quarters being cut to accept the vented quarter 'Z' emblems.

 

Some of the work being carried out on that car has made me, and a few others, wince. I'd like to see such an important and rare car mounted on a Celette or equivalent type body jig fixture before he started unzipping any seams and spotwelds. 

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12 hours ago, xs10shl said:

Fortune smiles.  I remembered I have a spare S30 dashboard from a car in the 1200's (as I recall), and the original glove box was intact.  Seeing the two boxes that I have side-by-side, I feel that it's likely the glove box I mangled was a high-quality replica (staples are black, among other tell-tale signs), and the intact one is authentic. Pics of the faint lettering from the authentic glove box attached.

Glovebox base chalkings have become one of my first calls when I see one of these cars in person. Getting down on your hands and knees with your head in the passenger side footwell often requires an explanation to the owner...

Clearly Nissan Shatai didn't really need to put much information - if at all - on North American market variant dashes during assembly (although that letter 'A' seems to pop up as above, as well as 'H'), but other LHD market variants certainly got their destination market chalked up either in 'Romaji' or Kana. So did export RHD markets.

For the domestic market, Nissan Shatai noted the sub-variant type there (probably indicating content difference) so your 1970 Fairlady Z would have a chalk mark indicating that it was a 'Standard'/'Z-S'/'S' model rather than a 'Deluxe'/'Z-D'/'D' model.

I've seen several variations for the same thing, so I wonder if it was an informal - rather than standardized - notation by the assembly line workers? I see 'S' and then '30', plus something else on yours that I can't make out. Frustrating!

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On 3/3/2022 at 11:08 PM, HS30-H said:

Glovebox base chalkings have become one of my first calls when I see one of these cars in person. Getting down on your hands and knees with your head in the passenger side footwell often requires an explanation to the owner...

The glove box chalkings is a good source to distinguish model variant . We can’t tell the difference from the chassis number .  For example, “ HS30-11861 “ on the fire wall , it could be a car exported to UK or Australia or Hong Kong , South Africa etc. How can we tell the chassis number is my Fairlady 240ZG without documents ? Especially in Japan,  Fairlady 240Z and Fairlady 240ZL and those Automatic transmission shares the same prefix “ HS30” on the fire wall . But the glove box chalkings could tell .
HLS30 cars except North America were not so many.  However, destination variation would be wider than RHD model . 
Germany, French , Italian ,  Netherlands, Belgium , Portuguese , Swiss , Mexican , sorry I can’t say it all !

I want to see every glove box chalkings to see how S30 cars were so popular around the world! 
 

Kats

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On 2/23/2022 at 11:47 PM, xs10shl said:

... also, I just noticed that they must have removed the left side-marker. No wonder the fender looked so clean to my eye.

 

{edit: I reviewed the Auto Sport pictures, and can see that the cut line is there, and that the left marker is missing.)

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My favorite picture, this is good I think, details are well shown in there . 
From Auto Sport , 
Kats

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