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350Z33

Need Advice, Worth Restoring?

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I've been looking at this Z and I was wondering if you guys think it's able to be restored. Do you think it can be restored or is it better for me to move on and find another Z? The only reason I've looked at this Z is because it's a low VIN. He says the engine serial number matches the number on the shock tower plate. There was also a little damage to the left front and right rear. Unfortunately, I live about 1,200 miles away from this car so I can't see it in person.

Here are some pictures. Input would be greatly appreciated.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5262/10005428if.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8536/10005432rz.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/92/10005447vh.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9356/10005455fm.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1369/10005482ys.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7674/10005516rr.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4034/10005521xd.jpg

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/6047/10005530al.jpg

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/985/10005544yo.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8482/10005557ce.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3420/10005568sf.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3136/10005576ev.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/491/10005581qq.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2579/10005592qg.jpg

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Hi Al,

Well......yes it could be restored. For a lot of money.

Is it worth it? Depends on just how low of a serial numbered car it is.

Do you know the VIN number?

If all the parts are there and its below #1000 VIN, I personally would do it for the right price.

Much luck in your search.

Chris A.

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It can be restored. It will be a very long-term project that will take many years and many thousands of dollars. If you are up for a very challenging project and have the dough, it would be really rewarding to see that car returned to "like new" condition. Just make sure you and your signficant other understand what you are getting into. : )

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If my memory serves me it looks better than the 27th does in that one picture that the 26th posts. I agree....if it is under a 1000 it might be worth the effort, I am sure you know what you are getting into, it will have to be a labor of love.

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It's #248. Thanks for all the input! I just don't want to get into something way over my head. I might just buy it and keep it in storage til I can devote a lot more time and money to it if it's possible to restore. I've seen some old threads on Ebay cars where they looked great on the exterior, but the frame was rusted and then suggested to be a parts car. I'm hoping this is not the case for 248.

The owner said he has all the parts, but they're in boxes. Only thing not with it are the intake and carbs. Last time it was driven was ~1982 and it's been sitting there ever since. I guess I'd have to do a parts inventory to really see if everything is still there.

Are there any other areas where I should ask for pictures that would show if the frame is able to be saved?

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That's a nice, low VIN. This car is approaching basket case status and a MAJOR project. Believe me, it will monopolize a 2-car garage for the next several years. If you would like to make restoring a Z-car your hobby, this would be a good candidate, as it is relatively complete and one of the early cars. Has the car been located in a climate condusive to rusting? Rust can be repaired. But again, the scope of this project is pretty major. The biggest transformations can be the most frustrating but also the most rewarding when finished.

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Al, if you can get a really good look at the underside, and it looks good, go for it. #248 is worth saving. But as already said, it will take money. If its cheap, snatch it up and get another parts car that has good body sections that you need. From the pictures you posted the rails inside the engine bay looked pretty good to me. And I've seen a lot worse repaired and driven.

If its going to be a hobby car for you, I say do it. Be patient and take your time in the restoration process.

But most of all have fun!

Best wishes,

Chris A.

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Thanks for all the great advice! I will see what he can do on the price, but what would you guys say it's worth? I've seen some old threads with Arizona cars (this one is in Dallas-Ft. Worth, he said dry weather) that were $500-$800 complete, but non-running and I think no title. This one has a clear title, original window sticker, no service records, but owner's manual. He said the ODO reads 82k and it has a broken dash ( :( ). I don't want to low-ball and offend him. Plus, I need to calculate shipping for 1,200 miles (one way). I think shipping alone is $800 for a Penske trailer with car trailer.

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Thanks for all the great advice! I will see what he can do on the price, but what would you guys say it's worth? I've seen some old threads with Arizona cars (this one is in Dallas-Ft. Worth, he said dry weather) that were $500-$800 complete, but non-running and I think no title. This one has a clear title, original window sticker, no service records, but owner's manual. He said the ODO reads 82k and it has a broken dash ( :( ). I don't want to low-ball and offend him. Plus, I need to calculate shipping for 1,200 miles (one way). I think shipping alone is $800 for a Penske trailer with car trailer.

The advice of Carl Beck or 26th would be valuable at this point in your decision process.

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350Z33,

What kind of car are you looking for? A low VIN number? All original? A resto project? All of the above?

From the few posts you've made, you sound like you know what you are doing, but I ask because there are some nice cars available here, notably Rick Saia's car. It's more a "resto-mod", it's not numbers matching, but it's an awesome car.

As a point to note, I purchased my car from this site, no complaints whatsoever. There are good people here and there's never a lack of help or advice.

Good luck!

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Rick, you have a beautiful car. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money to spend on a secondary car. This Z is something I'd put money into restoring it over a period of years, but the final cost would more than likey surpass your price (I cannot get another loan since I have one for my 350Z). I hope you get what you are looking for with your Z, but if a situation changes with me, I will let you know.

rdefabri, I'm really happy with any yaer 240Z. I definitely prefer something that is intact, which is why I'm not entire crazy about the basket case #248 (shipping and doing a part inventory is a pain). The main draw for me to this car is really only the low VIN and definitely the price, which I estimate is under $2,500 wiith me picking it up and shipping it back. As far as originality, I like that, too. Then again, I do like customized 240Zs. There was a green 240z with an RB26 that I really love, but the price ($19k), is too much for me right now, too.

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If you do buy #248 to restore, I'd suggest taking it to a place right there in Fort Worth called Metal Rehab. They will dip the entire unibody and fenders, hood, etc. and remove all of the paint, other crap, and rust. Then they will prime the whole thing. That would remove rust and stabilize the metal since it will take you some time to get to the point of finish painting. It may cost a couple of grand but to start from scratch with the metal and eradicate the rust would be worth it.

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#248 is an awfully low vin number with a matching numbers engine, very tempting! If the rust isn't too bad, the motor is capable of running and not blown and most of the parts are there, I would buy it. Unfortunately you can't evaluate the rust until you see the car in person. Are there any members here that could look at the car for him?

Has the Seller explained why the car is in so many pieces?

Good luck with your decision.

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350 , Looking at the pictures , which seem fairly complete, I didn't see any real bad rusting . One place was under one of the doors. Mostly it looked like surface rust. Service records on a car like this would only be interesting reading. It would definite long term project , only depending on how much you have done or do your self. The low ven # is vary important for bragging rights , UNLESS you are going to RESTORE the car not a mod/restore. Numbers matching then is a must and the cost of the project just goes in to the vary high figures. If you just want to save the car and clean it up to have a great quality driver . I recommend finding one close to your area , spend the cash for a driver with the least amount of rust and enjoy the ride. You will be money ahead. If you can do almost all the work your self and want the project and have a garage to devote a large part of to the project . Do it . I recently ''finished'' my 240 that is a not stock mod/restore and it took me almost 3 yrs. I didn't work on it daily and there were lapses of a week or two a couple of times. I have a Wife and grown kids with grandchildren to take fishing and have fun with, plus our home to take care of. Worked mostly winter time. Now I am having a great time enjoying the ride. And doing a few shows this summer . All the best to you . Gary

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Geeze! I gotta pay more attention! That's a low VIN Z! Somebody should have PM'd me. Hell yes, I can pipe in on this conversation. Here's my opinion - o p i n i o n.

350, your queston is too vague. Can it be restored? Certainly. What do you mean by "restored"? The answer I'm looking for is a description of what you expect the result to be. Pick up a copy of Humble's book or Reagan's book. Both will tell you to establish a level you are going to be satisfied with. Are you going to drive the car or show it? Are you going to sell the car and try to make money on it? Are you...see what I mean? What do you want from it when you are finished?

The next big question is; do you have the time and money to restore it? How do you plan to restore it? Are you going to give it to somebody and come back a year later and write a check? Or, are you going to do everything yourself and sub out the stuff you can't do while you stand over the guy and direct his work?

In my opinon, #248 (with matching numbers) restored to the level that the Vintage Zs were restored is going to be worth well over $50,000 in five years. It is going to cost every bit of $35,000 in parts and services to restore the car. The car will be quite literally brand new when you are finished. I have no idea what labor may cost because I'm doing my cars myself, but I could imagine $20,000. Essentially what I am saying is that I believe low VIN Zs are escalating in value such that the value of the completed car will be close to the cost of restoration.

So, the rub to all this is that if you took $35,000 and invested it in the stock market, you would probably make more money faster than you would by investing in cars. Investing in cars is like investing in art or gold coins. You will make money in the long run, (could loose also) but the rate of appreciation is probably not going to outpace the rate of inflation by very much. And if you restore the car yourself, you are going to put in a lot of sweat for pennies of return. A job in a coal mine probably pays more.

There you go. You answer the "is it worth it" question. I know a few guys who would take this one on. #248 is a '69? Let me know what you decide to do. I see you are in Orlando? Perfect! Let me know if you need a car shipper. I would say exactly what Carl Beck said to me when I bought 27th. "It can't be any worse than the pictures"!

Why don't you send me a PM with a phone number and we can talk about this more.

Chris

post-4148-14150797717625_thumb.jpg

post-4148-14150797717928_thumb.jpg

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I was waiting for the 26th reponse, and it was right on; what I was thinking a person who has what he has would say. Time, money and patiences is all you need to be a member of an enlite classy group. Great response 26.

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26th-Z, wow, thank you for that response! My plans for the Z are simply this: every car I buy, I will not sell. I'm not looking to restore this just to turn around. Only reason I would sell is if I need the money BADLY. Secondly, I do not want it to be restored as a Concours winning car. I would like to drive this car during the weekends and my 350 for the M-F commute. If you guys ever saw my 350Z in person, you'd be surprised it has 10,000 miles. The rear bumper is scraped and there are key marks and I have no intentions to get them fixed anytime soon. As long as it runs fine and looks acceptable, I'm perfectly happy. I don't think I need a $10,000 paint job.

As far as the restoration, the main thing I would outsource would be things such as welding in new panels and also paint (maybe engine/trans rebuild). Everything else I would try to do myself, but I don't plan to buy entirely new parts if I can clean up current/used parts that look decent enough. I also got in contact with the Ebay person from a few months back that had parts car 240Zs in AZ. They have the same Zs and have parts that are in good condition that I could use.

Also, this project is something I don't plan to have completed in say a years time. This will be something on the side and I wouldn't be surprised if it just takes 5 years. It might even sit in its current condition for a few months until I can get around to doing something. I don't want to let this deal pass me because I don't know if I can find something like this again.

I have received a few more pics of the underside of the car that I can post, but I won't be back near my computer until at least 3-4 hours. I'm working with the owner to see the least expensive way for me to have it shipped since it's pretty much in a million pieces. Right now I could only find a Penske truck, one-way, with trailer for ~$1,100 including estimated gas cost. I'd also have to spend some money just get out there, maybe a 1 way rental car.

26th-Z, I will PM you ASAP when I come back and I will give you details. I will post the underside pics in this thread, too. Thanks for all the help you guys have done so far! Much appreciated!

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Alright, here are the pictures of the underside of the Z. Honestly, I can't tell what I'm looking at in the majority of these pictures.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1024/10005600eh.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7744/10005610uv.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5492/10005624fi.jpg The hole is for the shifter.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2738/10005632hp.jpg I don't know where this hole is. He said it's where a grommet is missing.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7073/10005642ho.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2946/10005659gd.jpg

Does this give you guys a good idea of where rust prone spots would be or should I ask for more specific areas? Thanks again!

26th-Z, you have a PM!

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Hi Al,

Those new pictures look pretty good to me. Darn good if I do say so myself. I'd be all over that car like glaze on an Easter ham if I could.

The small hole picture is indeed just missing a plug.

Aside from surface rust I see no severe damage at all but there are other areas to be concerned about.

Looking in behind the steer tires at the lower frame rails is the first place I always look. Right where the rail meets the firewall. Also the inner fender below the battery support is another rust prone area.

So far though the car looks sound. Knock his price down due to the fact its a basket case and get her to your house.

Chris A.

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Buy it,

If you are willing to take on the task you will never find a better basket case.

But it is not rusty.

Many of the early parts are different so I hope he saved everything.

Fred

3 69 240Z's, 2 78 280Z's

PS Welcome to the Low VIN Club

PSS If you don't buy it let me know who has it :-)

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Glad to hear this car appears to be in good condition. I looked on zhome.com for rust prone spots and I'll be sure to ask for some of those pictures.

zpizzaman20, I was afraid of hearing that the 69s were a lot more different parts-wise. The owner says he has all the parts except the carbs and intake. Hopefully the remaining parts are in good condition other than the cracked dash. By the way, which 69 Zs do you own if you don't mind saying? If I don't go through this purchase (unlikely so far), I will post up the info here.

Chirs A, in regards to the price. What do you think a fair price would be for this since you mention I should ask for lower? One reason I'm hesitant is that I'm not familiar with pricing something like this and it comes with extras. His plans were to put in a V8, hence it's a basket case that he never got around to working on. It comes with a brand new Chevy V8, though, but it's 25 years old brand new. :D

Edit: I'll also ask for the production month to verify it's from '69.

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Unless there are parts available with this car that are not showing up in the pics, then you have a huge number of missing pieces. The one that is hardest to get up here in the rust belt has to be the gas tank. Don't worry too much about the fenders and hood. I just bought brand new ones from a Nissan Dealer. (Can you believe that?)

As for rust, the worst rust will be on the floor boards (under the sound proofing which hides rust very well) the spare tire and rear deck area (which looks ok) and of course the frame rails, which hide rust better than any other part of the car.

I have been working on my Z car for nearly 4 years. (Ignore the picture to the left, it is two years old...)

Mine is nearly complete, and it is a good thing that I am so close or I would just give up. It seems like there is no end of silly little problems that constantly pop up to stop the whole show.

The pictures you have linked to show a stripped frame that is in WAY better shape that what I started with, but it will take years and as 26th-Z said tens of thousands of dollars to re-build it correctly. I don't see any serious rust in the pictures, but beware that Z cars hide rust better than Jack Benny hid money.

Mine will never be "restored", at best I will get the thing driveable. If I can't do that, then I will sell it piece by piece on Ebay... (the parts are worth way more than the whole...)

If you do buy this car, the next thing you NEED to buy is the Z car parts micro-film CD that is available from this site. At least for the parts that Nissan still stocks it is worth its weight in gold... With it you can order parts from either your local dealer or http://www.courtesyparts.com/ directly from the part numbers on the CD with no hassles. The dealers will not do any research for you, that is certain.

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Walter Moore, thanks for the link with the parts list. I've dealt with Courtesy before and they're a great place. I didn't post the pictures of the random parts since I didn't think it would really help much, but here they are at your request:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1022/10005466xa.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8475/10005474zh.jpg

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/3015/10005493ro.jpg

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4867/10005507qw.jpg

The last couple pics are of some mods he was planning to install. That red intake is not the original either. He sold the original with a '73 he had.

Edit: As you said, I don't really plan to get this car in 110% condition. I would like to use it as a driver and not feel guilty if i don't wash it after every drive. I would like to use as many of the original parts as possible so I guess a lot of rebuilding of parts will have to be done if not in good condition (I don't mind worn seat bolsters). Glad to hear you didn't give up on your project. I'm guessing it feels great to look at something you restored yourself!

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