L-series Engine

[HS30-H]

I did this yesterday. A nice family tree for easy viewing. Still have some holes to fill. Looks like subaru is a distant cousin.

Please don't take this personally, but I think your 'family tree' is dysfunctional......

It makes it look as though Nakajima ( note the spelling ) and Tachikawa came before most of the companies listed below them ( which is not the case ) and it also makes it look as though the Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. didn't exist until PMC was merged with it - which is also not the case.

Please also note the spelling of 'Kaishinsha' ( it is not 'Kwaishinsha' ) and in fact it would be more accurate to split it into two words; 'Kai Shinsha'.

And what's with the inclusion of 'Infiniti' ( it makes it look as though 'Infiniti' is a company all on its own, and is the result of all that went before it )?

Like I said, please don't take it personally. I just think it is dangerous to make family trees like this when the story is a lot more complex and convoluted than such a graphic device can portray.

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

From what I've read on another forum, the L-series engine was developed by Nissan and was continually refined and upgraded, ending with the L-28.

Agreed. The L-gata was a Nissan in-house design, and was not a direct relation to anything from Prince.

The G8 (S-20) engine was developed by Prince and this engine eventually gave birth to the RB series engines found in later Skylines. Any thoughts?

The S20 was Nissan's development from the Prince GR8 ( not the G8 ). First the Prince GR8 was re-badged the 'Nissan GR8', and then the Nissan S20 engine was developed. The S20's DNA was from the GR8, but it was effectively a completely new design.

To make a direct link between the S20 and the RB-series engines is a little misleading. There's a stepping stone between them, and that stepping stone was the FJ-series. The FJ was effectively a four-pot successor to the S20, and shared many design details. There are even some valvetrain components which are interchangeable.

The RB-series was conceived as a practical successor to the L-series, and the RB26DETT ended up as a spiritual successor to the S20. There is a certain amount of 'what comes around goes around' in the story, as the Nissan L-series engine debuted with the L20 six in the H130-Series 'Cedric Special Six' - a top of the line Sedan. The RB-series engine debuted in the 1984 Laurel - also a top of the line sedan.

Head of the design and development team for the RB-series engine was Mr Shinichiro Sakurai - the man ( sometimes known as 'Mr Skyline' in Japan ) who had overseen the motorsport activities of Prince, and who was the chief engineer overseeing the design and development of the GR8, S20 and FJ-series engines. That's quite a blood line.

How often do we read and hear that the Nissan L-series engines originated with the L16 of the 510 Bluebird? It is an oft-repeated mistake, and has now become all but set in stone. Of course it is a completely FALSE story ( most likely originating in American advertising for the HLS30 ), as the 4-cylinder versions of the L-series engine came after that L20 six in the H130 'Cedric Special Six'.

Designer / Chief Engineer of the L-series engine? Mr Hiroshi Iida. We really ought to remember his name and sing his praises more often than we do........

Alan T.

ps - sakijo: Thanks for starting this thread.

[KGC210]

Wow Alan is there anything you don't know?

Its also been an honor to have Alan "Mr Nowledge" in person in the past

Isn't Infiniti just a name used for some of the export cars sold in USA? Like Datsun and Lexus are mainly just export names (Bar Datsun was used ages ago in Japan which came from DAT then Datson then again in 1932 I think to Datsun.)

I find it quite odd how information can get so twisted from the truth at times, I guess it's like Chinese whispers.

PS any tips on where to find info about Mr Hiroshi Iida as I can't seem to find anything on English or Jap search engines.

[pimp1911]

Appreciate your feedback.

Please don't take this personally, but I think your 'family tree' is dysfunctional......

It makes it look as though Nakajima ( note the spelling ) and Tachikawa came before most of the companies listed below them ( which is not the case ) and it also makes it look as though the Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. didn't exist until PMC was merged with it - which is also not the case.

Please also note the spelling of 'Kaishinsha' ( it is not 'Kwaishinsha' ) and in fact it would be more accurate to split it into two words; 'Kai Shinsha'.

And what's with the inclusion of 'Infiniti' ( it makes it look as though 'Infiniti' is a company all on its own, and is the result of all that went before it )?

Like I said, please don't take it personally. I just think it is dangerous to make family trees like this when the story is a lot more complex and convoluted than such a graphic device can portray.

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Wow Alan is there anything you don't know?

Its also been an honor to have Alan "Mr Nowledge" in person in the past

I'm not happy to have that kind of sobriquet applied to me, even if it is meant kindly. It makes it look as though I might even believe it myself - which is for sure not the case.

Of course there is an absolute wealth of things that most of us don't know about the history of these cars and the companies and individuals that made them. It is a great challenge, and any fresh information that we glean tends to open up the possibility of further questions we hadn't even thought of. And so it goes on......

But where the information is already at hand ( as in the case of the genesis of the Nissan 'L-gata' engine ) it would be nice if it was passed around properly and recorded correctly. But instead we have advertising copy and sales flannel taken as gospel. It is very frustrating.

PS any tips on where to find info about Mr Hiroshi Iida as I can't seem to find anything on English or Jap search engines.

Unless you can type his full name into the Japanese search engines ( in Kanji or possibly Katakana ) you probably won't get much in the way of results. The World Wide Web is not necessarily the fount of all wisdom just yet....... Perhaps you shouldn't expect too much from it.

You'll have to immerse yourself in some Japanese books and old magazine articles to satisfy some of your curiosity about the man.

Alan T.

[Victor Laury]

- Major Snip - "as the Nissan L-series engine debuted with the L20 six in the H130-Series 'Cedric Special Six' - a top of the line Sedan."

Another lovely car denighed to the US Market (But note the photo is a LHD car!)

Text and photo from Alan bent's "Planet Cedric"

NISSAN CEDRIC 130 Series (MARK 2) 1967-1968

In 1967 there were some minor changes to the front and rear of the 130, but the rest of the car remained unchanged. The new grille has one very wide horizontal bar with 8 thinner horizontal bars above it and 4 thinner bars below. The tail lights are very different to the Mark 1, they are now about 300mm long and 80mm tall, with a rectangular reversing light and a round reflector underneath. The tail lights, reflectors, reversing lights, emblems and number plate holder are all enclosed in a rectangular 'box' that is the with of the car and about 150mm tall. The bumpers now have rubber blocks on the over riders. The glove box emblem now says 'Datsun' instead of 'Cedric'. There was also a change in the designation of the different models, the Standard 6 cyl. is now called the 'Personal Six' and the 4 cyl. car is now called the 'Standard". Also in 1967, in most export countries the Cedric name was dropped and also the cars were now sold as a Datsun rather than a Nissan, in most countries the car was now sold as the Datsun 2000. In Japan it continued to be sold as the Nissan Cedric.

The different models available in 1967 are -130 - Standard - 1982cc 4 cyl engine. Has painted door window frames, smaller hubcaps that only partially cover the whole wheel, only one sunvisor and vinyl upholstery. Side emblems say 'Cedric'.

P130 - Deluxe Six - 1973cc 6 cyl engine. Has stainless steel door window frames, hubcaps that cover the whole wheel, stainless steel roof drip channel mouldings and vinyl upholstery. Side emblems say 'Datsun 2000 Deluxe Six' or 'Cedric Deluxe Six'.

P130D - Custom Six - 1973cc 6 cyl engine. Has stainless steel door window frames, hubcaps that cover the whole wheel, stainless steel roof drip channel mouldings and cloth upholstery. Side emblems say 'Datsun 2000 Custom Six' or 'Cedric Custom Six'.

P130S - Personal Six - 1973cc 6 cyl engine. Has painted door window frames, smaller hubcaps that only partially cover the whole wheel and vinyl upholstery. Side emblems say 'Datsun 2000 Personal Six' or 'Cedric Personal Six'.

WP130 - Wagon Six - 1973cc 6 cyl engine. Has stainless steel door window frames, hubcaps that cover the whole wheel, stainless steel roof drip channel mouldings and vinyl upholstery. Side emblems say 'Datsun 2000 Wagon Six' or 'Cedric Wagon Six'.

VP130 - Cedric Van - 1973cc 6 cyl engine. Has painted door window frames, smaller hubcaps that only partially cover the whole wheel, only one sunvisor and vinyl upholstery. Side emblems say 'Cedric Six'.

Q130 - Cedric Diesel - Is the same as the Standard but has the SD22 4cyl. 2164cc 70hp Diesel engine with a 3 speed gearbox.

H130 - Special Six - 1998cc 123hp OHC 6cyl twin carb engine. Has stainless steel door window frames, hubcaps that cover the whole wheel, stainless steel roof drip channel mouldings, bucket seats and vinyl upholstery. Side emblems say 'Datsun 2000 Special Six' or 'Cedric Special Six'.

H130 - Super Six - The Super Six appears to be identical to the Special Six in every way, I can't see any difference between them. It is possible that the Special Six was sold as the Super Six in some countries. Side emblems say 'Datsun 2000 Super Six' or 'Cedric Super Six'.

[NZeder]

I must be very mis-informed (I guess you get that when your are at the bottom of the world) I only just heard of the "Infiniti" and I thought it was just one type of car not a line of cars? The US Market is just too confussing for the rest of us that have Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Daewoo, KIA but through in US bandings like Infiniti, Lexus (yes we get them here, sometimes the same car as a Toyota), Acura etc

How many other countries had a big ad campain when moving from Datsun to Nissan?

Sorry for the off topic stuff above.

Re Nissan engines Does anyone know about the LZ Twin Cam heads that Nissan fitted to the L4 blocks for race/rallies (not to be confussed with the Z Series engines that some call a LZ, that is just wrong yes the Z series 4 cylinders were the next gen of the L4 with NAPS crossflow heads but should never ever be called a LZ) and did this LZ TC head + the S20 infulence the FJ20/FJ24 engines? Also would any one know were I could find one or have an idea on the cost of a LZ TC head?

[The C110]

Many others more informed than me will tell you that they are nigh on impossible to find, and cost an absolute bucketload if you can...

[Mr Camouflage]

Re Nissan engines Does anyone know about the LZ Twin Cam heads that Nissan fitted to the L4 blocks for race/rallies .....Also would any one know were I could find one or have an idea on the cost of a LZ TC head?

You can find one right here:

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k29542080

[Carl Beck]

I did this yesterday. A nice family tree for easy viewing. Still have some holes to fill. Looks like subaru is a distant cousin.

I don't see anything - what did you do yesterday?

thanks,

Carl

[aarc240]

You can find one right here:

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k29542080

Is that an ALUMINIUM block??

[aarc240]

Many others more informed than me will tell you that they are nigh on impossible to find, and cost an absolute bucketload if you can...

Looks like about A$33000, but if that's a pretty much complete engine then for what you get it's a bargain compared to a Ford BDA or similar!