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F1 Race @ Indy

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Well, I'm guessing that every F1 fan is as pissed off as I am at MICHELIN's big tire F-up on Sunday's race (Ferrarri practice)! Six friggin car!!! Now thats a race.......right! Anyone care to share their thoughts on Sunday's big race??? LOL

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Apart from the understandably hacked off fans who were there and paid up for tickets/accomodation I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes old news fairly quickly as F1 supposedly barely registers in the US, the same as NASCAR and the like barely register in Europe. I am sure the lawsuits will be flying for a while to come though. It is not as if it was a money spinner for F1 as they were having to sell tickets at reduced rates to get the US public interested.

So there might not be a US grand prix next year? So? There are plenty of other countries and circuits who are gagging to get a place on the F1 calendar, and who knows what will happen in 2008 when the 'breakaway' F1 series starts.

But what a way to mess up the organisation of a grand prix. Whilst none of the possible solutions ( chicane, tyres from Spanish GP) would have been perfect within the rules ANY of them would have been better than what happened yesterday.

By the way I don't think it is good enough to blame Michelin. It is not as if they dumped this on the teams at one hours notice. There were a number of solutions that could have been tried that would have resulted in a race with a full grid but the politics got in the way.

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I tend to think that the entire "one set of tires rule" per race is pretty lame! Come on, this is supposed to be the top of the heap racing! Another point I've thought about is.....every time the FIA attempts to slow the cars down, the teams find a way to keep their speeds up (thanks to $$$ and technology) so, the way I see it, the only weak link in the chain are the old, too slow race tracks! How about building some tracks that can handle the latest and future speeds and technology. I'm quessing the fans would love to see, if only for a fraction of a second, cars whizzing by at 250mph +!!!

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Safety and politics never mix. I think that this will ruin the US F1 GP. People come from all over the world to see this race. I am sure that there will be plenty of fall out from this, although not necessarly in regards to F1 racing in the United States.

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While not happy to see the outcome of the race (only six cars), I don't think the blame lies anywhere but on Michelin. The Bridgestone teams came with a tire that ran the track with no problems. Why should they make last minute changes to the track because one tire mfr didn't have a cometitive product. Had it been the Bridgestone tires that were failing, and there was a possibilty Ferrari would not be able to race, the "fans" (Schumacher haters) would have been happy to see those cars not there. I think it will be damaging to Michelin in their future with F1. They were right not "bend" any of the rules because the tires were failing. Obviously someone made a tire that would race all the way, so it can be done. This will probably spell the end of F1 at Indy, but there are other tracks in the US that would be much better for an F1 race anyway. Watkins Glenn would be awsome, Sears Point would be cool as well.

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Well, as was suggested on another site, just go to the Cleveland GP and register your choice of competition with your attendence at the most competitive road racing.

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I was at the race yesterday... I was disappointed for the first time with my favorite sport... I will continue to love it though. It just pisses me off, though.

Shame on Michelin for not testing/developing a tire that would perform at Indy... Bridgestone did their homework, no excuse for Michelin. No doubt, Michelin learned their lesson here...

Shame on the Michelin teams for trying to point fingers at the FIA and Ferrari... this further builds their "case" for a break-away series in 2008.

Shame on Bernie & Max for creating such turmoil in the sport through their back-door manipulation & strong-arm tactics. It will catch up with them soon... and yesterday may have been the beginning.

My question (and I am going out on a limb here)... has the one-tire-per-race rule actually fulfilled its intent? The cars aren't driving any slower. I would venture to say that tire changes would allow teams to keep fresher (hence safer) tires on their cars throughout the race.

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Big B owns the show, he make the $, then he has to take responsibility. Yes the tires failed. Then the ringmaster has to do something, cause the "show must go on".

It didn't.

B E is an A$%, the whole world knows it, and T George is his twin.

If you want to see real competition and real racing, go to the "Run-0ffs" in September. three days, 29 races, 29 champions. Get close to the action, walk the padock free, talk to the drivers and mechanics, all for $30.

See ya at Mid Ohio.

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HOLY....!!!!

I missed yesterday's race as our company had it's yearly Golf tournament (won it, BTW :smoke: ). I am a long time F1 fan, having seen my first race some 30 years ago as a kid up in Watkins Glen, and look forward to watching them live no matter the time of day. I was hoping to avoid any press coverage (not hard to do here in the States) so that I could watch it's rebroadcast on Friday with the same enthusiasm I always do.

When I saw this thread, I couldn't resist taking a look. To be honest, I couldn't figure out WTF was going on, so I hit up F1's official website.

I still can't believe what I read.

I can appreciate Michelins position and concern for safety, but MAN did they screw up! And for the Michelin teams to even suggest adding a chicane is not only ridiculous, but also pretty selfish. None of them were shedding tears for Bridgestone/Ferrari earlier this year when they were struggling.

As for the fans blaming Ferrari, shut up and go back to watching NASCAR... please!

Some of the press were suggesting that this incident might kill F1 in the United States, and I honestly don't know why? The USGP has had some pretty good attendance since it's reinception at Indy. I'll admit it's not as good as some other countries/tracks, but OTOH, the IMS is collosal in size and has done a very good job filling seats. Dead? I don't think so. It's just sad that F1 in the US can't visit some of this country's truley great road circuits, but it's easy to understand why.

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If the race is held in Indy again (next year), there's going to be some really good seats available, for sweetheart prices I'm sure.

Michelin stock is down 7% today... doh!

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The fans will vote on F1 with their wallets, and I can't imagine there was much of a line to buy 2006 tickets today (a huge line to get refunds though).

F1 is done at Indy and I can't imagine any other track promoter thinking that taking it's (Indy's) place is a good business decision.

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Not to toot my own horn here, but I've been suggesting the one tire rule for years (and gotten plenty of flames for it), and I'm glad it was adopted. I think it's exactly what F1 needed. Here's my logic:

1. We know that although F1 is considered by many to be the "pinnacle" of motor racing, a contest of the heavyweights where no-holds-barred is the norm, that's actually not true at all. If that were the case, F1 manufacturers would long ago have gotten rid of drivers completely and simply replaced them with computers, servos and the like. Think back to the early 90's and take the technology to it's logical end.

2. If you want to keep manufacturers interested in the sport (ie more makers, more teams) then you need to tailor the rules in such a way that they can actually benefit from them in the long run. In the days of old, it wasn't so hard for car makers to justify racing because things they learned on the track could and often did make thier way onto the production line. That includes the tire manufacturers. Now if you are asking the tire manufactuters to invest MILLIONS upon millions of dollars to develop the ultimate racing tire that only needs to last 20 laps, and is of virtually no practical value other than PR, it won't be long before they'll lose interest too. Now, ask them to compete in developing a tire that is not only fast but must LAST... see my point? THAT has real-world application.

3. In these days of super high downforce, super-goopy tires that are so tuned and specialized that they either work perfectly of not at all, what you end up with are 10-20 laps of racing followed by 50 laps of follow the leader because no one can risk racing "off-line". At some of these tracks, roadside marbles are so bad that even 1/2 carwidth offline and your spinning. What's the challenge in all that?

IMHO, the "One Tire" rule brings back the skill and strategy of racing that F1 has lacked for a long time. I'll give you a case in point:

Kimi Raikkonen's finish (or lack thereof) at the EuropeanGP just a few weeks ago. Raikkonen's last lap tire failure and subsequent loss was a direct result of flatspotting (badly) his tire mid-race. Driver error = Driver loss. Simple.

I think it would have been a true treat to see the likes of Ayrton Senna four wheel drifting a F1 car around. Or Schumaker for that matter. These drivers have skills most people can't comprehend, why not let us SEE them, instead of burying them inside of tens or even thousands of seconds on a laptime sheet.

If it were me (cough, cough) I'd give 'em just one set of tires, rain OR shine, every three races. Since when do YOU change your tires every time it rains? Hmmm?

One mans (humble) opinion, that's all. :tapemouth

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It's sad, but pobably true. F1 may not be back at Indy and may be done in the US. There are other tracks it should be at instead of Indy that wold be better for F1. I hope this isn't the end of F1 in the US.

I have to disagree with your statement about it not being a good b usiness decision to bring F1 to a different track. It was not the track's fault. It was the tire mfr not having a tire that was able to compete. Bridgestone brought the right tire. If Michelin didn't bring the right equipment, oh well, they must suffer the results. It was bad show for the fans, and was bad for the teams to want to change the rules so they could race. You MUST play by the rules all the time, not just when it works out for you. If your equipment isn't right, then too bad. The teams running the Bridgestone tires made it thru the whole race on the same set of tires, as is within the rules. It was a true let down, and a horrible spectacle, but that happens sometimes. The guys from Minardi and Jordan were sure happy though. Good thing they were running Bridgestone.

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Ricklandia,

Thanks for responding... you've validated your opinion very well. I cannot disagree with you as I didn't take as much into consideration as I posed the question.

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Food for thought. I'm not jumping to Michelin's defence here but....

Didn't the track get re laid after the 500?

I heard the new surface was too slick so they cut 1 to 2mm grooves in it combat the problem.

Doesn't Bridgestone supply the tyres for the entire Indy Car field. So they new what was required to change the side wall so it could handle the extra heat.

It was too late for Michelin when they found the problem on the Friday.

Internal bickering between the upper levels of F1 prevented the inclusion of a chicane that would have allowed the show to go on (slow down the entry speed to the banking and therefore side wall loading). The last qualifying was done and Michelin had no choice to do what they did.

Shame on F1 is correct. Complete blame on Michelin no.

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Manufacturing defects do happen as stringent as QA is in F1. Maybe what happened to the Michelin tires could be traced to something like that. It's interesting to note that according to the Speed TV commentators the second emergency set of tires Michelin had made for Sunday's race also apparently exhibited the same problem.

I don't understand why faced with the possibility that 14 cars would not participate in the race Max and Bernie couldn't for once make an exception and institute some kind of "coned" chicane" before T13 to reduce speed through it as the 7 Michelin teams suggested. Making an exception to the FIA rules would surely have been less of a public relations snafu than to see 14 cars decide not to race making a mockery out of the whole event itself. I for one am completely on the side of the 7 Michelin teams.

What if they had raced and god forbid someone HAD had a bad accident, one even worse than RSchumacher's from last year.... I'm sure people would be hoping today that those teams would have chosen not to race as they did...

What amazes me though with the exception of the VIPs in the boxes with access to TV coverage and such it seems that no announcement was made to the fans in attendance as to why 14 cars peeled off the warmup lap as they did. No wonder they were so stunned and then pissed.... but still you figure someone could have made some kind of announcement??? I'm sure that had such an announcement been made people would have still been upset but at least they wouldn't have started throwing things at the 6 cars that WERE on the track and travelling in excess of 200mph... Can you imagine if one of those full water bottles of aluminum cans happened to hit Schumi in the head as he drove down the front straight??? Totally ridiculous and irresponsible on behalf of the fans in attendance.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kills the USGP for next year and several years into the future.

-e

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Michelin should be fined and put on probation for coming to the USGP so ill prepared that it's tires were unsafe to compete.

The FIA should have allowed a chicane between T12 and T13, even if it meant that the race became a non-points paying event.

I disagree that the 1 set of tires per GP rule is good for the sport. In the example given in a previous post, if Kimi had trashed his tire and had to come in for an additional pit stop, his race would have been run anyway.

I was at the race yesterday... I was disappointed for the first time with my favorite sport... I will continue to love it though. It just pisses me off, though.

Shame on Michelin for not testing/developing a tire that would perform at Indy... Bridgestone did their homework, no excuse for Michelin. No doubt, Michelin learned their lesson here...

Shame on the Michelin teams for trying to point fingers at the FIA and Ferrari... this further builds their "case" for a break-away series in 2008.

Shame on Bernie & Max for creating such turmoil in the sport through their back-door manipulation & strong-arm tactics. It will catch up with them soon... and yesterday may have been the beginning.

............

Well, I agree with most of what you said, but Bernie and the FIA had an obligation to put on a show and they let it go all to hell. Michelin is not blameless, but there were options that could have been used to ensure a safe race for all drivers, and a show for the paying (and non-paying) fans

B E is an A$%, the whole world knows it, and T George is his twin.......

Amen!

Shame on them all. Michelin, Bernie & Max, and the FIA.

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Try this one:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050620/SPORTS0103/506200369

IMHO the blame lies squarely on the FIA. Michelin goofed up, but they had the decency to admit it. They asked the FIA to install the chicane which would allow their drivers to race and even offered to start Michelin-shod cars at the back of the field and surrender race points. The FIA still refused, and let race fans around the world watch six cars instead. That's pitiful.

F1 has burned every bridge they've crossed in the USA. They're unapproachable, arrogant and difficult in every possible manner, and have managed to convince themselves that we're lucky they're here. This is but an extension of the petty bickering they've done in Europe for years. As far as I'm concerned, they can go back where they came from. If F1 is the self-proclaimed "pinnacle" of the sport, I'd rather race go karts.

BTW, somewhere, somehow, this will end up being all Tony George's fault. You heard it here first.

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BTW, somewhere, somehow, this will end up being all Tony George's fault. You heard it here first.

You won't hear that from my lips. I don't like him, period. But he's blameless on this issue, IMO. He and his Mum even had the decency to boycott the farcical trophy ceremony.

He should file suit against the FIA and Bernie in order to recoup funds to refund ticket sales.

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I think Michelelin did the right thing. This isn't the 50's anymore where drivers were expected to die for the sport. 9 out of 10 teams agreed to a change in the track layout that would keep speeds to a safe level. FIA and Ferrari refused, and you end up with a dull race and guess who (Ferrari) taking first and second place.

No wonder F1 has so few fans in the US, however, if Danica Patrick had been in the race no one would have noticed that the field was down by 14 entries.

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Well Sopwith and I finaly agree!

No it is not Tony George's fault. But that said, I do believe the ticket buyers entered into an agreement with the speedway as the promoter of the race. The ticket buyers had no such contract with F1, the FIA, Michelin, or as the FIA calls them now "the Michelin 7".

Tony and the Speedway had a contract with the "Almighties". It is TG who can directly recover his damages from them.

I belive it would be fitting of TG to give refunds for the tickets (much cheaper than the total cost paid by the fans), and to use that refunded amount as clear and proven damages against the "Almighties".

TG would come across as a hero to the racing public and he could use his "power" for good to hold the untouchables to justice.

The other option for the only damaged parties (the fans) would be a class action against the "almighties" AND THE SPEEDWAY. In this case Tony gets unfairly lumped with the guilty parties. Also, in a class action some legal beagle will be including hotel rooms, air fare, emotional hardship and probably beer and lap dances.

By the latest news it looks like Max and Bernie are already to PROFIT from their culpibility by fining the "Michelin 7" , who by the way will be M & B's competition in 2008.

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I still don't understand how anyone can blame Tony George or IMS for any of this? Believe you me, I an NOT a big supporter of TG although I do give him credit for bringing back F1 to the USA after a long and embarrassing abscence here. In fact, looking back on it, even when it WAS here, some of those races were pretty pathetic...Las Vegas parking lot???

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the EXACT track layout as last year? And aren't these the same teams that were here last year? Face it, Michelin blew it. I don't blame the teams for not fielding thier cars if they thought it was unsafe, but don't blame the FIA for not bending the rules just to fix your own errors. If the teams that refused to race have any beef, it's with Michelin, not the FIA or IMS.

I merely suggest that the "Michelin" teams grow some nads, and take responsibility for thier error, stop crying and DEAL WITH IT. This crybaby approach is what makes F1 so unappealing to so many.

The unfortunate participants in all of this are the fans, and unfortunately nothing will likely be done to compensate them for this debacle. If the FIA is truely intent on making Michelin and/or "the 7" pay for thier bellyaching, they should levy fines and send the collection to the ticketholders at IMS.

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It is racing without the fans, but it "don't make any money" so we have fans.

If the show is crappy, there won't be any fans. F1 and FIA will figure this out in the US next year.

NASCAR has figured it out. The rules are for the show.

So what if half the field is out. So what if I don't ever go.

I don't go to Indy at all any more because they don't race in the rain except F1, and I'm not wasting my time to come home again because it rained. Been there and done that.

I'll take showroom stock in the rain at Mid Ohio any day over Indy.

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I don't go to Indy at all any more because they don't race in the rain

I'm not sure we can make a sensible case for racing on an oval with walls at 200+ mph in the wet. I also refrain from faulting people for not jumping off tall buildings and playing Russian roulette.

I'll take showroom stock in the rain at Mid Ohio any day over Indy.

LOL One way or another, we were bound to get there.

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