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SuperDave

Electrolytic Rust Removal

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    Hey Carl, I bet you could sell those drums on eBay and make a fortune!!!

    You could call them "deep koy ponds" or "toy storage units for tall kids" or "an empty barrel of monkeys"! LOL

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    Win Your Choice of:

    "One owner, low mileage Deep Koy Ponds."

    "Semi-Transparent Toy Storage Units for Tall Kids"

    "Large Barrel of Monkeys" (Monkeys not included)

    starting bid = $10.00

    ;)

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    When I finish de-rusting my pieces and parts, I always have to clean them off with a soapy brush, dry them, and run a wire brush over them. The electrolytic process leaves a black substance that will turn to rust if you don't clean it off. I was wondering what, if anything, they used on your complete car to clean it up.

    Below is one of my latest pieces (after I cleaned it up and ready for a coat of primer), a rear control arm.

    <br>

    <img src="http://www.davesweb.com/houndawg/images/P1030675_640x480.jpg" width="640" height="480">

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    I don't know what they use, Dave.

    My experience so far has been a little retarded and I have been too busy to set up a rig like yours. I'm going to, though. What happened, was that between the time I took my car to the place and they dipped it, the business was sold and the new owners had trouble with the tanks. Evidently, the old owners ran the business into the ground which is why I waited more than six months to get the car dipped. The heaters for the stripping / cleaning tank broke down and 26th didn't come as clean as it should have. They had trouble with the electrolytic tank as well. Dale was asking me if I knew anything about rheostats and I'm guessing that they are having electrical issues.

    The car came clean enough to weld on and I elected to cut and patch while the guys get the tanks back in order. Then 26th gets dipped again after all the metal work is done.

    My recollection is that the surface dries to a white powdery finish and somewhat tacky. It protects the metal for about ten days. I'll ask more questions the next time I see those guys.

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    Thanks for the info. White powderly finish? Hmmm. Maybe there is a final bath they give it. Or maybe they blast it with baking soda or something. Would you care to TASTE your car and give me a report?

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    I checked out the tanks, Dave. Sodium hydrochlorate, I'm thinking. And Sodium Cyanide. And Sodium something else. There was a dangerous chemicals tag on the tank and I don't exactly remember. I was surprised. I'm told the dried finish is "like a baking powder". Its not thick enough to look white. Just a few streaks.

    The tank uses huge copper plates and the rectifier is the size of a large welding machine. The conductors are about 1". I'll ask more when I go to get the car next week. I had all the welding done and they are dipping it one last time to get it clean.

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    26th-Z,

    I hope that you are going to use a good epoxy primer when you paint the clean shell. It's the only way to go from where you are starting for the ultimate protection...

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    26th-Z,

    I hope that you are going to use a good epoxy primer when you paint the clean shell. It's the only way to go from where you are starting for the ultimate protection...

    I agree with this. A good epoxy primer is the only way to go. My brother is in the striping business here in NZ (dry striping, using garnett) and he alway recommends to customers to spend the extra $$ on a good epoxy primer. Would not want to do the whole thing again in 10 years time due to rust under the paint due to porus primer.

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    I'll post more pictures and I'll try to get some shots of the tank set-up with the chemical names.

    I certainly won't use a BAD epoxy primer, you guys! Here's the wacky plan. Tell me what you think. It's not "original", but everyone I tell seems to smile and think it will work just fine.

    The body shell is completely void of anything but metal. The sound insulation is gone. The seam seal caulking is gone. Everything except the plastic coating on the wiring harness tabs that are welded to the body. All the seams are wide open, rust free, and everything is exposed. Even though there is still a lot of body preparation to go, sealing the car up from bare metal is essential. I have about a ten day time frame. So we're going to put the car up on stands with a big sheet of visqueen on the floor. I'm going to mix a thin batch of primer and pour it into a Home Depot pump-up garden sprayer. You know, the ones with the log plastic wands and spray nozzle? I'm going to spray down the inside of the shell; not caring about any mess I make or how sloppy the spray runs down the inside of the channels until the car is literally dripping from the seams. You just shove the wand up in there, hit the trigger and slowly pull the wand out.

    In all fairness, 26th-Z lasted 35 years with no protection inside the shell. But that's why I chose this method to get rid of the rust. Its gone - inside and out.

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    No worries about drips and runs that may crack later as the primer dries and the drips shrink?

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    26th,

    Thank you for sharing what you are doing/ going to your body shell. I read this with great interest, and look forward to reading any full article/thread.

    Cheers

    Ian

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    Okay, I've tried this process twice and failed both times.

    The first time I used a battery charger that was too smart for its own good. It threw an error code that said the battery was too far dead to be charged. I was trying to use 2 amps and it was a 12-volt charger.

    So I bought a simpler charger designed for smaller batteries. It is a 6 or 12 volt (you can select which) and 1.5 amps. This charger has three lights that indicate what it is up to: "Charging," "Charged," and "Trouble." Well about five minutes after I start it up it will switch over to "Trouble" and quit sending current.

    Can anyone recommend a charger or other power source that will just send current without asking questions?

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    Can anyone recommend a charger or other power source that will just send current without asking questions?

    I tested this process recently with a cheap trickle charger that doesn't have any of the fancy settings like yours do. You could probably even use your car battery itself. You could use jumper cables to the project and then hook up the charger to keep the battery charged.

    Another option would be to use a standard 12-volt power supply. I have no experience with the following products but it came from a Google search and will at least let you know what I'm talking about:

    http://www.baproducts.com/pyramid.htm

    Here's something similar from Radio Shack:

    http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F001%5F005%5F000&product%5Fid=22%2D507

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    I just used a basic 12V charger that was rated at 10 amp.

    There will about 1 to 3 amps of charging current at the start

    and rising to about 4 or 5 amps. You could use a car battery

    and the charger to keep it charged. But put a head light in

    series between the battery and the electrode so a dead short

    will just make the light bright. The light will glow as this

    contraption is working

    I did mine a little different but still the same results.

    I used a garage sale stainless steel sink.

    http://67.42.8.86:8884/Files/Datsun/Rust/

    After a a few days the sink gave up and I cut it up

    and used the plastic bucket with what was left of the

    sink for the + electrode

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    Dave,

    The solution they are using in Wauchula is Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Hydroxide, and Sodium Cyanide. They use copper plate for the annode. The plate covers the entire tank.

    26th-Z is back home in Sarasota. We found her a nice air-conditioned body shop for me to grind welds. Just spent the whole afternoon grinding welds. Nicked my fingers a good one or two!

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    Did you notice any outgassing? I'd like to do mine indoors, and don't care for any explosion hazard.

    thx

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    I did finally build myself a de-rusting setup, and it really works!

    I used a steel bolt as the anode, but I didn't have any copper wire for the connections. I put it all in an empty 1 gal windsheild washer fluid bottle which had the top half cut off & some notches for a cross-support. I found a 12V power adapter to use for the power supply, and hooked it all up to de-rust some heater hose holders. The 150mA power dapter was enough to do the small part.

    The only thing I had a problem with was the black stuff left on the part after de-rusting. What have others done to remove the black stuff and get the part shiney- or clean- looking?

    thxZ

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    Successs on an engine block!

    I helped a professional Rolls-Royce restorer guy de-rust an engine block using the electrolytic method. We used a big plastic 50-gallon drum for the container, rested the engine block on wood blocks on the bottom, and used 8 rods of rebar around the perimeter as the electrodes. the rods were flattened on the ends with holes drilled for screws for the best electrical connections. 12 ga. stranded wire with eye-connectors were used all-around (there was a big roll handy.) The power was a 20 Amp, 6-volt battery charger; 12 volts didn't look to make any difference. Current was about 17 amps to start, and smoothed out to about 10 Amps at the end.

    The process took about 20 hours total.

    There was probably a good inch or so is rusty crud floating on top,which was scooped off with a paper cup and the electrodes were barely affected.

    The block was finished off with water to flush the cooling passages, and a rinse with some light scrubbing to get the black oxide coating off, and the bare metal was protected with a spray-on waxy coating that resembled furniture polish. The waxy coating will be removed with solvent before painting the block.

    The cylnder bores were examined before and after the process with NO CHANGES. The diameter was not affected, nor was the cross-hatching from the previous (original) honing. A light honing of the cylinder bores will be done anyway.

    I think the total cost was about $50 -60 from the quantity of distilled water used, and the rebar rods. the rest was on-hand (plastic drum, wire, battery charger and washing powder.)

    thxZ

    Edited by TomoHawk

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