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Lumens

72 OMS Pace Car F/S in NY

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Cool car until the pop up wanted my email address to enter some stupid $^!#.

$50K you'd think this would look as good as the rest???

67_p31_l.jpg

Edited by siteunseen

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That was my first thought as well. Last one of fifty produced, huh? Prove it.

Unless you can produce definitive documentation to prove it IS in fact what they say it is, then it's just a 72 with a history of crappy paint jobs.

The thing that really bothers me about a car and claim like that is... OK, so they think it's something really special. If it's really THAT special, wouldn't you take the time and put forth the effort and cost to put paint and other finishing touches on it that's commensurate to the uniqueness of the specimen?

They say in the description:
"only one of the 50 duplicate O.M.S. Pace Cars has been found, and the sole survivor is the car we have to offer you.

The original owner tired of the graphics and painted it with a Jaguar Burgundy. The car was pulled out of storage and sold to a friend of the owner in 2007, who began its restoration. Photos show layers of paint being peeled away revealing the original O.M.S. Blue and White colors from 1972."

If they peeled the paint away, then why is there still burgundy overspray in the engine compartment? You see it? Over near the blue overspray?

There are several members of this forum who put their cars on a rotisserie and stripped to bare metal and did a real nice paint job. And that's just for their "driver" car. Not one of fifty of something supposedly this unique!

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Couldn't agree with you more Capt.  .........This looks like a $15,000.00 car to me.....dream on Motorcarclassics.

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9 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Unless you can produce definitive documentation to prove it IS in fact what they say it is, then it's just a 72 with a history of crappy paint jobs.

I would argue that even if they could prove it, it's STILL just a 72 with a history of crappy paint jobs. So it paced a few races, well that's an interesting tidbit of it's past life but I wouldn't give them an extra dollar for that.

I would however give them an extra dollar if they took a rag with some thinners on it and wiped off the burgundy over spray.

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10 hours ago, Diseazd said:

Couldn't agree with you more Capt.  .........This looks like a $15,000.00 car to me.....dream on Motorcarclassics.

Agreed. Same here. One reason I posted it was to get opinions. Even my red interior is way better than that one.

Owner began restoration. Ha. Then finish it. I would not even list it until it was finished. Even then no $50K for sure.

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I took a closer look at the cited web pages where the claims of the selling entity are supposedly supported, and it just gets fishier.

First of all, none of these replica cars ever paced a lap. They are "replicas" of the pace car. The REAL pace car had performance and suspension mods that made it track worthy, but not legal to drive on the street. The story supposedly goes like this...

They make one fast, but not street worthy. This is used as the pace car.
They make a second one that LOOKS like the pace car, but it is street worthy to drive around town for photo-ops.

From what I can tell, those two cars (even though they are very different) are both called "Official Pace Cars"

Then there is some unexplained jump and picture to support the existence of fifty "replica" pace cars. These were probably normal 240Z's with a pace car looking paint job and maybe a plaque or tag somewhere indicating the status.

So then there are the pics of the car in question on the website, and a couple pics of the "restoration". They show the car mostly maroon with some paint sanded off exposing what looks like some blue patches.

Then they show it freshly painted the way it is currently in that for sale ad. Two things get me about this... First, adding to the concept of a poorly done "restoration", it isn't even painted correctly for a replica pace car. It's missing the blue downward stripes on the front fenders!!! Who "restores" a specialty car like that and forgets a huge paint detail like that??? And it's also missing the "OFFICIAL PACE CAR" wording on the rear hips.

Then second, and even more troubling to me, is that the next pictures on that that same web page, they show what is propertied to be the same car and it DOES have the fender stripes and a big racing number "0" on the roof and the door. So which paint came first? The current one, or the one with the 0?

What? They painted it AGAIN, and then a third time for the for sale ad?

It's all just so fishy...

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Continued confusion... This car turned up in May 2105 on both japanesenostalgoc and BAT for $25K:
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/kidney-anyone-1972-datsun-240z-pace-car/
https://bringatrailer.com/2015/05/01/1-of-50-1972-datsun-240z-commemorative-pace-cars/

They cited the same link about the restoration with the implication that these are all the same car:
http://zhome.com/Racing/OMSDuplicates.htm

I've completely lost how many times this thing has supposedly been painted.

I've got no dog in this fight, and it's a good thing... I can't tell which one I should be rooting for!

Captain Out.  LOL

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On 11/19/2017 at 7:23 PM, Lumens said:

Saw this. Claims to be 1 of 2 built and the last to survive. 

https://www.motorcarclassics.com/1972-datsun-240z-c-67.htm

I don't see that Claim made in the Ad.  Perhaps because I understand that 50 OMS Pace Car Duplicates were sold to the Public - they are saying that this is one of the original 50.

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On 11/19/2017 at 9:51 PM, Patcon said:

I would hope there is some documentation for this somewhere. Not the previous owner told me...

There is no documentation for that - since it is incorrect to begin with.  On the other hand, if we are taking about a claim that this was one of the original 50 Duplicates - its known and reported owner history over time - helps to support the claim. Sanding down careful to see if the original OMS livery is there helps as well, common practice when trying to authenticate a cars history.    There is no huge premium involved - asking price aide - it's a Dealer.  Granted it is no where close to a $50K example..

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On 11/19/2017 at 6:23 PM, Lumens said:

Saw this. Claims to be 1 of 2 built and the last to survive. 

https://www.motorcarclassics.com/1972-datsun-240z-c-67.htm

 

 

Carl is correct. This was not claimed in the ad. I read this too fast. 

If these 50 clones were just paint only over an otherwise stock Z with the front and rear spoilers then not much added value IMO.

The original pace car was modified according to Carl's website. To what degree we don't really know, I guess.

I suspect they put some goodies on it from Datsun Comp Department.

The blue color on this car does not even look like the blue on the pace car shown on Carl's site.

This one looks like the BRE blue to me. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

........I've completely lost how many times this thing has supposedly been painted.

I've got no dog in this fight, and it's a good thing... I can't tell which one I should be rooting for!

Captain Out.  LOL

As I have followed this cars reported history over the years  - then its sale - and its initial refresh;  the graphics "0's" and stripes initially reapplied - they were pretty poorly done.( ie. not to scale etc.)  So it doesn't surprise me that they were either removed or painted over subsequently. The car presents better without them, even if incomplete.  The Ad does say it a Condition 3 example...even if it is a Low Condition #3 at this point.   Nonetheless - A Japanese Sports Car Pacing a traditional American Indy Car Race it is an interesting part of the 240Z's History and I believe this car should be actually restored properly - to preserve that history.  Like most Special Interest Cars, an interesting history or well founded story add some value for many Collectors - just how high the premium for that value is - only the market can tell. 

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28 minutes ago, Lumens said:

Carl is correct. This was not claimed in the ad. I read this too fast. 

If these 50 clones were just paint only over an otherwise stock Z with the front and rear spoilers then not much added value IMO.

The original pace car was modified according to Carl's website. To what degree we don't really know, I guess.

I suspect they put some goodies on it from Datsun Comp Department.

The blue color on this car does not even look like the blue on the pace car shown on Carl's site.

This one looks like the BRE blue to me. 

From the same Web Site/Page: 

(Quote) After completing its official duties, the 1972 OMS Pace Car was purchased by Joel Anderson from the Datsun Competition Dept. for $1.00 and Joel picked it up at Sears Point from Bob Bondurant in 1979.

Joel was Frank Leary's Crew Chief and later became a fellow competitor. Joel and Frank shared a shop together in Santa Clara for years. Joel was one of the competitors at Atlanta when Frank won the American Road Race Of Champions in 1978. The OMS Pace Car was later prepared for competition in IMSA's GT-U Class.

Pictured Below: Now more highly modified for IMSA GT-U duty, the former OMS Pace car was campaigned by Anderson in black livery wearing #49 show here at Laguna Seca.(END Quote)

Joel and I have communicated frequently over the years - but I never thought to ask him exactly what BRE did in preparing the OMS Pace car for track duty.  The Z in its #49 Livery from its IMSA days - is still ran at the Monterey Historic's... although in a far more race prepared configuration from IMSA.

The Pace Cars and the Duplicates were BRE Blue... it was a DuPont color called "Big Bad Blue".. and they had the BRE livery.. the Photo's then digitized for Internet - can be somewhat misleading - depending on the lighting and old film processing etc. 

FWIW,

Carl

Edit - oh wanted to add - these were more specifically  - all 1972 White 240Z's with Red interiors. (helps narrow down the field a bit).

Edited by Carl Beck
added information

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Just my personal involvement/prespective:

I was working as a New Car Sales Manager for a DATSUN Dealership in 1972. So received all the DATSUN PR Photo's and Press Releases.  Happened to keep the one about the 50 OMS Duplicates sold in Southern California to promote the California 500 & DATSUN. Started looking for any one of them, in about the mid 80's. Yes, as a huge fan of Peter Brock and BRE, as well as the DATSUN 240Z - I was hoping to find one in its "as sold" condition. That was when I started asking everyone "on-line" if anyone knew of one that I could buy.  As I recall the original owner of this car responded by EMail - saying he had one, but had repainted it - got tired of the attention it drew as he got older. Then a few years later I heard from the person he sold it to ( personal friend of the owner).. as the new owners plan was to put it back in its OMS livery..  As sometimes happens, one people get into a project and find out how much it costs.. they are forced to live within a their budget.. so it doesn't alway turn out the way they dreamed. 

I'm not in any way trying to support a $50K price - although I would love to see it. That would put a greater market value on all Datsun History.. I do however believe this car matters and hope someone will do it justice.

FWIW,

Carl

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14 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

it's a Dealer. 

It would be more attractive if the second owner was selling it, with an honest story to tell.  It's kind of contaminated now.

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