Transmission internals question

[Dave WM]

one more thing to consider, maybe it will work anyway since you never go from 5th to rev due to the lockout mech. Which I need to know does yours have that? bolt to the side of the trans designed to prevent going from 5th to rev? Maybe yours does NOT have that and this is a way to keep you from going from 5th to rev by accident? check for the rev lockout. 83 should have had it but just be sure you really have an 83 and not an early 5 speed.

 

nevermind all the above, you said it has a hard time coming out of rev that is just wrong.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Dave WM

[Dave WM]

this is why you cant go 100% by the manual. that thrust washer goes between the 1st gear and the bearing on the adapter plate. It shows it this way in many of the manuals I found for a 5speed. think it was right on the 4speed manual. I guess the pic could be seen as the bushing fits thru the washer  but still a bit confusing I would have preferred to have the thrust washer shown behind the gear for clarity.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Dave WM

[redfogo]

17 minutes ago, Dave WM said:

here is the exploded view see how the dogs look different here, but they also have the thrust washer on 1st wrong (not in that part of the pic but clearly wrong in the manual).

This image kinda looks like how mine is set up with the Long end in the front and short end in the back. Guess I will have to see what my shifting with the case on shows me tonight

[Dave WM]

exactly. IF someone had been inside it, it would be an easy mistake to make, I know I almost did. I still have issues with the PO saying it was fine, that is a problem.

hoping Eurodat can chime in on what he thinks. I am no expert, just recently been into one.

that exploded pic is pretty low res, that is why I used the machine cross sectional view when trying to determine the correct way to install.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Dave WM

[Dave WM]

one mine you never see the entire dog pad exposed from the slider, there is always some part of it covered regardless of rev or 5th selection. Since you have it out of the bell housing you may want to look closely at how the dogs look on the other gears, do they also stay under the slider at all times?

Edited November 15, 2017 by Dave WM

[Zed Head]

Could the OD synchronizer hub be installed backward?  That's the splined piece on the inside that the dogs sit in.  The dog house.  It's asymmetrical for OD/5th.

[Zed Head]

Probably not, I'd guess.  (Answering my own question).

There are two different 5th gear types, if I recall right.  Different hubs and synchro rings.  Brass versus "carbon" is the usual discussion point.  Maybe there are more differences.  Might be comparing apples and pears.

[Dave WM]

I just keep getting hung up on it having worked per the PO. Unless he is just wrong about that I would hesitate to recommend taking it apart. Really Really need to know if that is for sure.

IF taking apart to see where the springs are (assuming the sychro is the same as mine) relative to the dog pads,  its  an easy thing to do, and you need to get a new main shaft nut. At least it would not require hub removal (assume its on the right way) to just reverse those dogs. BTW putting those dogs on and installing the slider would help to have 3 hands. Maybe hard to do with the hub still on the shaft and that is not an easy part to get off, need a puller with some real long reach. When I assembled mine it was on a table and I had easy access, it was still a bit of a challenge.

 

[Zed Head]

I think that you can tell if 5th gear is right by the position of the coupler on the gear teeth.  In your video you can see that they all line up.  Once those drive teeth are engaged the gear is "in play".  If 5th is right, hard to see how reverse could be wrong.

Reverse is kind of crude anyway.  I'm not even sure that the teeth are fully engaged when it's in use, are they?  Not really meant to transmit a lot of power.

Wouldn't be surprised if the front cover actually does come into play for reverse, because it's probably not worth extensive engineering.  The adapter plate balls and grooves could be worn too as you said, allowing just enough extra travel to cause problems, without the help of the cover.

[Dave WM]

Rev only engages about 75% of the teeth. was that way on the two I opened up. I hope the OP gets some more video up soon so we can get a closer look. He should get some close ups of those dogs. The most troubling thing is the way his brass ring would spin independently of the inner hub. That should be locked loosely only allow to move 1/2 tooth either way. My guess is when the slider is forward the dogs pivot up enough on the back to clear the cut outs in the brass ring. Then he has to move it around while waiting for them to align again enough for the dogs to slip back in when the slider is push back to neutral.

Just seem that there is no way this could have shifted well coming out of reverse like this, I suppose the brass ring would spin around fast enough to quickly find its correct place.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Dave WM

[redfogo]

Alright I am uploading a video now I got a close up and everything. My reverse actually works fine as long as the back half is on/everything is fully assembled and I am using the shifter.  So I think the shift fork must hold it in a specific location to keep everything happy.

[redfogo]

Video of it assembled