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7tooZ

Subaru differential stub axles

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I didn’t want to takeover Matthew Abate’s post regarding Subaru Stub axles. But I have some questions:

Are there “datsun stub axles” that will fit into the Subaru R180s?

Where are members buying aftermarket axles?

Have you purchased some and what is your experience?

Had anyone adapted the R160 diff to a Z?

 

I have been working my way through HybridZ with out getting clear answers? Plus they are mostly focused on the big HP cars.

 

 

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The silverminemotors.com link in Post #6 of Abate's thread is about "Datsun stub axles" for the Subaru R180.  John Coffey designed them and saw them through to production then gave the info to Wolf Creek Racing.  Not sure how Silvermine came in, unless they just made a copy.

Here are two links in one, Wolf Creek and a link to the relevant Hybridz thread.

http://www.wolfcreekracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=31

 

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Wolf Creek was sold to FutoFab.

The cost comparison between a built Datsun R180 (quaife, new bearings and seals) and a subbie R180 LSD that needs a set of stub axles to accept the half-shafts and a Datsun coupler from an R180 to match your driveshaft is within a few hundred dollars assuming you have to buy everything.

 

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Wolf Creek was sold to FutoFab.
The cost comparison between a built Datsun R180 (quaife, new bearings and seals) and a subbie R180 LSD that needs a set of stub axles to accept the half-shafts and a Datsun coupler from an R180 to match your driveshaft is within a few hundred dollars assuming you have to buy everything.
 

Where would you go to purchase that Quaife for a R180?


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Wolf Creek was sold to FutoFab.
The cost comparison between a built Datsun R180 (quaife, new bearings and seals) and a subbie R180 LSD that needs a set of stub axles to accept the half-shafts and a Datsun coupler from an R180 to match your driveshaft is within a few hundred dollars assuming you have to buy everything.
 

This is where I find it confusing. I have recently been searching and find that a Subaru conversion (clutch type) will run about $1000 - 1200. That’s 500 for 3.90 diff from 2004 Sti, a 500 for axles. A DIY install.

Isn’t a quaife unit for a R180 about $1100-1300, I had one installed in July in an R200 with new bearings and seals $850 cost of professional install. Now if you are capable Of setting the backlash correctly then okay it’s closer, but not a few
$100
Where did I miss it

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I found these and I post them for discussion...

I think that the price of a quaife is reasonable if it is a bolt on fitment...

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/nissan-240z-110mm-c-w-quaife-atb-helical-lsd-differential

the price of tractionconcepts is really good but how about quality? what's the difference in comparison with quaife? is this also a bolt on fit?

http://www.tractionconcepts.com/Datsun-Nissan-240Z-280Z-300Z-R180-Lsd-Kit-p/tcxda6511.htm

anyone has experience on these?

 

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If you buy all new, or assume that a used Subie diff will be rebuilt professionally, then it's probably a wash.  But John C had the axles made for DIY people, assuming that they were buying wrecking yard Subie diffs and rebuilding them themselves or just using as-is.

If you're just going to open a wallet there is a wide range of possibilities.

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Zed
I think I am agreeing with you. The question I posed is assuming using a used Subaru LSD was diff if you can find the type and ratio you want. Most are available in the 250.00 CL or 550.00 shipped and 30 day warranty.
Obviously you can write a check and get exactly what you want. My R200 with a new Mfactory LSD cast me 1800.00 + 300.0 for a R200 got me what I wanted and is basically like new.

My question I posed is really about a lower budget DIY that most owners can do in their garage. I was hoping there were others out there have actually done it.


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I was mainly responding to gnosez.  Somebody always has a less exepnsive way to do things if everything falls in to place just right.  He didn't really offer an details.

 

If you take your $250, and silvermine's $375, and add say another $100 for the pinion flange, you're at $725, for bolt-in R180 swap.  Not bad.  

http://www.silverminemotors.com/datsun/datsun-240z/drivetrain-17/lsd-r180-sti-out-output-flange-conversion-stub-axels

The hybridz thread linked in the wolfcreekracing page has many stories from people who tried John Coffey's axles.  They loved the final package, from what I read.  Looks like the link is broken though so here it is - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/78123-subaru-wrx-sti-r180-side-axles/

And here's a Google with a bunch of the development thread work linked - https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=vvwJWrG6Kc28jwOdlLqYDg&q=site%3Ahybridz.org+subaru-wrx-sti-r180-side-axles&oq=site%3Ahybridz.org+subaru-wrx-sti-r180-side-axles&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1370.8646.0.9920.18.18.0.0.0.0.93.813.18.18.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.5.322...0j0i131k1j0i10k1.0.dtx90L00WPY

It was pretty well thought out and ended well.  So well that other people are riding John's coat-tails.

 

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I  based my cost comparisons on new bearings, seals, stub axles (Subbie diff), labor costs and the diffs themselves. Both diffs would be used, I assumed the gears where in good shape and the Datsun diff would get a Quaife (not welded or OBX'ed) and the clutch plates on the subbie diff would be replaced as needed. I like the Quaife over an LSD diff on the track but don't see any advantage when used on a street car.

I can truthfully state that I came in late and missed the DIY portion and put forth my opinion based on a few simple personal rules on installing parts in or on my Z. One of them is - never install something like an engine, tranny, diff that takes time and real effort to put in only to have it fail because I was too cheap and didn't bother to install new bearing, seals, rebuild kit, etc. just so I can drive it for a little while and then have to go through the whole process again when said part goes bad.

My $.02

Subbie diff (3:90) $700-$900, stub axles $550, coupler $175, clutch plates $200 ($1,700-$1,900)

Datsun diff (3:90) $500 and Quaife $1250 ($1750)

Assuming bearings, seals, labor and shipping would be similar for both diffs

Edited by gnosez

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13 minutes ago, gnosez said:

I  based my cost comparisons...

But where are they?  The numbers from the cost comparison. 

I think we're looking for numbers and sources, not so much opinions about what somebody thinks is the best way to go about a project.  Many people enjoy building their car themselves.  Some people just take their ideas to a shop.

7tooZ asked you where a person would get a Quaife for an R180 back in post #4.  That might be useful info.

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Costs are in my last post.

Sources for a diff, stub axles or a Quaife?  Ebay to start, Futofab, MSA, Google...the world is but a few clicks away.

And here I thought this was a thread that was partially about DIY.

 

Edited by gnosez

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15 hours ago, George_Zed said:

I found these and I post them for discussion...

I think that the price of a quaife is reasonable if it is a bolt on fitment...

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/nissan-240z-110mm-c-w-quaife-atb-helical-lsd-differential

the price of tractionconcepts is really good but how about quality? what's the difference in comparison with quaife? is this also a bolt on fit?

http://www.tractionconcepts.com/Datsun-Nissan-240Z-280Z-300Z-R180-Lsd-Kit-p/tcxda6511.htm

anyone has experience on these?

 

any comments on these links? quaife price is £715.00  ($937) and the tractionconcepts is only $349 . I thought with this price I would get some comments.

Any experience on the tractionconcepts diff?

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You're in Greece George, which seems like a foreign country to us.  Shipping costs make those options not worth considering, for us, over here.

The Traction Concepts product and others like it are generally seen as cheap, low quality options, to get both wheels to spin.  Not "real" performance products.  More of a gimmicky work around, one step below a welded diff.  I don't think I've seen anyone on any of the Z car forums I've been around actually buy one and use it.  It's surprising that the product is still available.

One interesting thing about the Subie diffs are that there are two types, Torsen and clutch.  So you have to make that choice, if it matters to you.  Another thought is that it's actually fairly simple to change gear ratios, via a new ring and pinion gear set.  The cost comes in having a good shop set the clearances back to spec. correctly, after installation. 

One thing that's fairly common to do is to assume that the backlash and the bearing preload will stay in spec if only the carrier is changed.  I know that certain skilled people on this forum have done that with R200's and been fine.  It's common across OEM diffs, the housings are the wide-spec. parts but the carriers are typically precise and accurate.  They can be swapped, across gears and housings.  But then you can have those night sweats that gnosez gets.

I just went through all of this with a Ford diff, swapping an LSD diff and carrier in to an open diff housing.  There's a bunch of different ways to get it done, but that means there's a bunch of different ways to make a mistake too.  There's a ton of videos and instructions out there.  It's a fun DIY, and even if you choose to have a shop do it at least you'll know what they're talking about.

And here's another option, the Cusco, which seems to get good marks. https://www.rallysportdirect.com/part/limited-slip-differentials/cus-lsd-182-l15-cusco-rs-rear-lsd-1-5-way-r180

image.png

Obviously, the work will make you chew your nails...  eeeew...

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 12:26 AM, George_Zed said:

any comments on these links? quaife price is £715.00  ($937) and the tractionconcepts is only $349 . I thought with this price I would get some comments.

wayAny experience on the tractionconcepts diff?

Interesting options for someone who wants to build a specific differential and can do the labor themselves. Neither have popped up on my Radar so cant comment. My goal was to determine if there is a low budget way to add LSD to a 240Z. I have a line on both a 2004 & 2005 STI diff with 3.90 gears. I am leaning toward the Silver Mine stub axles to maintain the low cost goal. Looks like it will be close to the $1000 mark. That assumes the diff does not have to be opened. Moelk is the only one who has responded to having used them and indicates no issues.

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Workes like a charm ; )

But I bought my axels from John Williams not from silver mine.

IMG_9661.JPG

//Andreas

Edited by moelk
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What gear oil does Subaru recommend?

And do they suggest a friction modifier as well?

I ask because there was a Z at VIR who installed an LSD diff before coming to the track and forgot to put in the additive. He trailered his car home after two 25 minute sessions. Diff was making a loud noise and I recorded a cover temp in excess of 300 degrees F.

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7 hours ago, gnosez said:

What gear oil does Subaru recommend?

And do they suggest a friction modifier as well?

I ask because there was a Z at VIR who installed an LSD diff before coming to the track and forgot to put in the additive. He trailered his car home after two 25 minute sessions. Diff was making a loud noise and I recorded a cover temp in excess of 300 degrees F.

I use Motul PA90 in my 2005 STI's differential.  (R-180)

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Its an actual 2005 Subaru WRX STI that I drive :)    Its my DD.     Maybe if/when it dies I can steal my own differential to put into my Z. :D

Edited by DaveR

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