Hardway

Series-1 Hatch Vent Duct Clips & Restoration Info Needed

60 posts in this topic

In an effort to rid my car of exhaust fumes coming in I disassembled just about everything related to the hatch vent system and removed the taillight trim panel to see what the taillight gaskets looked like.  The TL gaskets are shot so I will be ordering new gaskets for them.  The hatch vents were removed at some point in the car's history and re-installed using rivets which has bugged be ever since I bought it.  With everything apart I realize I am missing the U-shaped clips that hold they hatch ducts against the body and the barrel clips the actually hold the chrome vent grilles.  I have a good idea what the U-shape clips look like but need some measurements if anyone has one sitting around.  Additionally, can someone confirm the order in which everything goes together?  I think the ducts are installed in the hatch with their proper seals, the U-clip goes over the inside edge to hold it in place.  Does barrel clip go through the U-clip and in to the hatch sheet metal or some other way?  

On the hatch duct work, my semi-rigid seals are salvageable but the foam gaskets are pretty much gone.  I was planning to use some 3/8 self adhesive foam weather stripping to make a new seal.  Are new ones available?  If not, do you have a better idea than I have?

Need to look at the rubber flaps on the inner hatch panel, I don't think they are thick enough.  I will also seal the edge of the panel before I re-install it.

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The offending rivets holding the hatch vents in place.  I already have new ones but debating on re-using some old ones I have since I plan to paint the car and would like to save my new ones for that.

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Pictures from Jim Arnett on the CT Z Car forums.

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Taillight panel off.  Looks like it has never been off the car.  Luckily there appears to be zero damage from contact or rust.

Taillights01.jpg

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Home for lunch so no time at the moment, but I will post up tonight with measurements and additional photos.

Steve Nixon has reproduced the hatch vent rain deflectors that I sent him and offers them for sale on his website.

I think you should really replace yours, as they appear to be as deteriorated as most I have seen. The curvature of the deflector to channel and divert water flow is quite important at these hatch openings.

 

Jim D.

"Zup"

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Thank you Zup.  I look forward to the pics of the clips.  I see the gaskets on Steve's site.  $75/pair.  Looks like I will be purchasing a set.  I will also ask him if he makes the clips or plans to as it would be good to know.  

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The "C" clips perform dual duty: they hold the plenum/gasket assembly against the underside of the hatch and the holes in the "C" clips are the receivers for the pins on the silver grills.

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As Jim @jfa.series1    said above, the clips hold the entire assembly including the hatch trims to the hatch and position it properly. The barrel clips that are commonly used to mount the emblems are attached to the trim pins and inserted into the smaller holes of the clips after the ductwork/diverter assembly has been installed onto the hatch.

Here are photos of the clips I have intended for my 7/70 and additional photos of the diverters, where you can make out the curved profile.

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Also, a photo of a quick tracing of the clip with associated dimensions in MM.

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My ductwork assemblies are in storage across town, so I won't be able to add them to this topic until the coming weekend.

I'll photo the assembly and post to this thread, as it would be a good bit easier to understand than these ramblings.

As I said, Steve Nixon  @nix240z makes these diverters now, and he would certainly be the one to reproduce the clips (maybe in stainless) 

The originals were made of spring steel to ensure that they would fit tightly, even after the frustrating hassle of spreading them while mounting the assembly to the hatch.

 

Jim D.

"Zup"

 

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You are the best Zup!  Thank you so much for posting all of this.  I checked with Steve and he confirmed he does not have the clips at this time.  I am not sure what the demand is for them either but making a set of scratch with your detailed drawings should be do-able.  

The air diverter seals do not have any foam on top from Steve but I can tell there was a thin layer of foam on mine (at least what is left of it)  I can see the pros and cons of this.  Do you think I should add a layer of foam to the air diverter seals or just install them as-is new?

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I hope Steve re-pops them---- they would be identical to original and perfect. Anyone who is restoring an early car would need them, and many of us do not have the skills you have shown for fabrication.

I am planning on using 2mm closed cell foam sheeting cut to the shape of the diverter and placed between it and the underside of the hatch.

(use contact cement to attach it to the diverter first)

You can get the foam sheeting at Walmart or any crafts store. Usually found over near school supplies or sewing.

This weekend I'll post photos of the assembly before installation.

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I would be in for a set or two if someone re-pops them.

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Yes, you need the foam.  I would go for a couple of sets of clips.

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I'm in for a couple of sets

 

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ID: 11   Posted (edited)

I did this a few years ago using all new hardware from MSA and trying my best to make it a good seal. But, to be honest, I never got rid of the exhaust fumes and I was worried about water getting in. Maybe you will be more successful, but just in case I'll show you what I did, which was to fabricate a couple stainless steel plates and glue them over the vent holes with silicone. I can always remove them if I want as I have the original and the replacement hardware, but no more smell. I'll attach a picture so you can get an idea. I also added some text, the left one says "1971" and the right one "Datsun 240Z" (I used a font called " KaiTi" which seemed to match OK)...this is so people are less likely to ask me if it's a Porsche ;-O .

(BTW, I know this means the cabin doesn't "breathe," but I haven't noticed any real consequences of this.)

EDIT: I will also add the file I used for the plates.

13243699_1030088880406018_5054353470441528083_o--for online.jpg

Hatch Covers.pdf

Edited by z boy mn

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Steve informed me he does not make or have the clips at this time.  I went ahead and order my seals from him so those are on the way.  Looks like we are on our own for clips.  I found Blue's post below.  He observed that there were two different width clips on his car.  I am unsure if this is isolated to his car or if all cars were this way and it has not been obvious to those who have encountered them.

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/41029-hatch-vent-trim-installation/

 

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Home for lunch---

Bummer about Steve not reproducing the clips---hopefully he will re-consider.

Only from my own experience with removing these assemblies from a 10/70 240z--- the hatch ductwork in it was completely intact and un-molested.

Both sides were the same as far as the clip width. The photos I posted are of the original diverter and clips from that car.

As usual my foggy memory fails me---so last night I went to the storage unit and found the complete NOS, still in the Nissan bag, hatch duct assembly that I had purchased some years back.

Part:description from the tag: A Duct RR Vent    

                                               90820-E4100    QTY 1

I will post photos tonight.

Jim D.

"Zup"

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Thanks for the update Zup.  I have sent request for a quote to a local sheet metal fab shop and used your picture and drawing as reference.  I have asked for an initial quote of 100 clips in stainless steel and they said that would not be a problem. Since a car takes 4 clips that would be 25 sets.  I will keep everyone posted as I get more info from them.

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Good news Hardway--

Just want to stress that I think they should be done in spring steel if at all possible.

When attaching the assembly to the hatch there is quite a bit of deformation (spread) required to open the clip wide enough to get everything clamped up at the same time it is being attached to the hatch opening metal.

The spring steel accommodates this and returns to original dimension to hold everything securely.

Stainless would be great for longevity, but I don't know if it can be made to match the properties of spring steel.

Maybe tempering the metal and properly quenching it would do it, but I don't know for sure.

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8 minutes ago, Zup said:

Good news Hardway--

Just want to stress that I think they should be done in spring steel if at all possible.

When attaching the assembly to the hatch there is quite a bit of deformation (spread) required to open the clip wide enough to get everything clamped up at the same time it is being attached to the hatch opening metal.

The spring steel accommodates this and returns to original dimension to hold everything securely.

Stainless would be great for longevity, but I don't know if it can be made to match the properties of spring steel.

Maybe tempering the metal and properly quenching it would do it, but I don't know for sure.

+1 on the spring steel aspect.  The plenum/gasket assembly has to be held tightly to the underside of the hatch to provide the proper water seal.  SS is nice from a non- corrosion perspective but it won't provide the proper tension.  I often ask myself if I'm smarter than the team that designed all this stuff.

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I'll buy 2 sets if you do a run :)

 

I only have 1 correct hatch so far lol.

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I have a few of these hatch vent parts. Let me know if you need me to take a look for them. jlp

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I will buy a set of clips if you get them made.     My car is missing one of them.

My 12/70 build 240Z does not have the water diverter flap shown in post #4, it is just flat.  Doesn't appear that they were ever there.

Some stainless steel types can be hardened and tempered.  (I'm not an expert though.) 

 

 

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Yes, you can get springs made out of stainless. I'm no spring or materials expert, but I'm assuming you give up some performance in other areas as a trade off for the corrosion resistance, but this doesn't appear to be a very demanding application. I bet someone who knows what they are doing could design a stainless version that would work.

I've never messed with the early vent system ever, so I know nothing about it... It would be easier to make if it were a simple U shape instead of having that extra radius at the root of the clip on the one side. Is that feature important? Does the clip need to clear a lip or something there?

Another idea is that similar clips (speed nuts, barrel nuts) are very common items. Maybe you could find one in suitable size and grind the hole out to a size that will accept the original clips that grab the posts?
458180.jpg 45403-007.jpg   45414-007.jpg

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ID: 21   Posted (edited)

Hello Cpt'n! --:P

Permission to Board!---:ermm:

Some observations on the NOS hatch vent duct assembly shown below---

The clips that were loose in the sealed bag are completely different from those Jim Arnett @jfa.series1 has shown  and that Blue @240260280 and I have shown.

They are nothing more than a cad plated speed nut and would be totally useless as a means of attaching the ductwork. The space between the leaves of the clip is far to narrow in dimension for mounting the combined thickness of the assembly and the thickness of the hatch sheet metal---believe me I tried and it will not work. I don't know what Nissan was thinking by the time this particular batch of replacement parts was produced but actually mounting them wasn't a part of it! The original clips are shown as used in the photos. They fit easily and well and I have a high degree of confidence that they will mount properly onto the hatch opening and function as intended.

The diverter and plenum are identical to those I have gleaned from several sources and match Jim A. and Blue's photos.

The diverter has a factory applied 8mm layer of open cell foam attached to the top using contact adhesive film (adhesive---film---adhesive---foam). While the foam is 8mm it is extremely soft in density and compresses to about 2mm upon full compression. (hence my thoughts to use 2mm closed cell foam in my replacement---I am not as concerned about the compress-ability as I am about the foam soaking and retaining water)

A similar story to that of the NOS clips is the NOS factory duct tubes that I acquired from Courtesy Nissan some years back that are made of an almost rigid plastic and the accordion portion of them does not flex well.

It is not made of the rubber material used originally which, even though 46+ years old, is still as soft and pliable as new and flexes easily. They attach to the bottom surface of the hatch to empty water out at the tailgate latch surface. If you are restoring your ductwork use the old tubes!

On to a salvo of photos--

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Hoping this helps in the future---

I think reproduction clips made correctly will offer the best chances of a satisfactory solution for anyone trying to restore this aspect of the early hatch. (now that is real news, ----:huh:)

 

Jim D.

"Zup"

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Zup
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Does anyone know if the original grill were made of metal? I have put two of these together on restored cars and can confirm it is difficult to do even with help. The current grills are plastic and it is easy to snap the tabs off. The pins on the back is what holds it all together. The clip grabs the pin on the bank of the grill. We have been lucky so far as we had the original clips.
If someone makes a duplicate of the original I will take several sets.


Don's iPhone using Classic Zcar Club mobile

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I will check to see if I have an early one. I believe that they were plastic from the start. JLP

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I am relatively certain that the finisher grills were made of plastic from the beginning. I have never seen or heard of an original metal version, unlike the other emblems that were made originally in metal, then later in plastic .

The ductwork assembly is mounted to the hatch without the finisher grill installed.

Put the barrel clip on the post and insert it into the mounted assembly by pushing downward. The assembly clip upper hole is sized to accept the diameter of the barrel clip. The lower hole is oversized to prevent bottoming out of the post.

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Hi Jim, fantastic! I agree drain tube , use original soft rubber one , it is very good.

I too looked my spare parts , a metal crip which attaches two plastic parts is there, I confirmed, thank you.

My wife said "is it for vacuum cleaner ? "

I have to keep it inside my parts box !

Kats

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