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conedodger

Let's show vintage racing pictures. I'll start.

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My conclusion, is that Alan was being rude. I have not visited either website nor examined the validity of the argument. I am actually, in this regard, unconcerned with the difference of opinion. But, as it is a thread that I started, I would prefer he not be rude or condescending in the presentation of his point.

As for this being a Carl Beck Fan Club... My goodness! Carl gets no pass here. If he were being rude I would have asked him to tone it down as well... As it is, if Carl could be called rude it would be for ignoring Alan.

I just want the truth to be sought out without acrimony.

Now once again, Alan - what is your point? What is the problem that is so great that you feel the need to be rude? Further, why is it so important to you?

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'conedodger',

Thanks for your advice. Nice of "Academia" to come and pay me a personal visit, and useful to know that "....the English argue differently" when posting on what is actually an international forum.

I'm afraid I shall be sticking with my opinion ( obviously differing from yours ), and I think that's healthy as far as this forum goes. Otherwise we might as well rename it the 'Carl Beck Fan Club' and let it become the replacement for his dearly departed Mailing List, in which he was able to edit all posts before they even hit the screen.

I see you are damning the racingsportscars.com site too. Quite extraordinary. You and Mr B. could be two peas in a pod. If the data on the ex-Speakman car at zhome.com was originally right, then why has it now been "updated"? And if what is written on that page now ( implying that the Doyle, Speakman & Maffucci 16th O/A finish in 1978 was the first finish for a 240Z at the Daytona 24hrs ) is correct, then please post your evidence to prove that the other cars we have mentioned don't count.

And if you have any other 'advice' for me on how to deal with your friends, then please send it to me by PM.

Thanks.

Alan,

You are apparently English? I fail to see that the fact that the website is International has anything to do with the cultural traits of the English. You are writing in a conversational tone and frankly being rude. At first I thought I was mistaking your conversational tone with cultural trait but it is pretty apparent that it is just you.

Your reference to the IZCC mailing list and allegation that Carl edited posts before they hit the screen reveals some prior problem with Carl.

I still don't know or understand your point of view and as I said, I want to but your point gets lost in your tone. For instance "would it help if somebody explained it to you?" This post implies that you think Carl is stupid. Are you being rude, or do you actually want to tell us that you think Carl is stupid?

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Now my 914 friends think this picture might have been taken at the HSR Mitty in 2007. A Frank Beck driving the 914 and Tom Trabue driving the Z...

These are some great shots of Brad Frisselle's Z! It just happens that I live in Northern California not far from a shop that generally restores and races vintage race cars... Bruce Cannepa is known for the Porsche cars he does but I noticed on his website that he is selling the restored Frizzelle car. Interesting to note for those of you who like to argue history, Bruce claims this to be the first chassis imported to the United States. Yes? No? Let the fur fly! http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/7313/index.html

My Porsche friends think the 914 might be Adrian Gang but no one is sure... Anyone here have access to old car numbers from the day? I am assuming based on the Kitty Litter that is Road Atlanta. What corner? Is this picture below from the 70's or from a vintage race later on?

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The picture was taken at the Mitty, correct. Ron, you beat me to it. Those are fantastic pictures of the ARRC in 1971. Thanks for the link to the ad. Those are great pictures of the restored Frisselle car.

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Now once again, Alan - what is your point? What is the problem that is so great that you feel the need to be rude? Further, why is it so important to you?

conedodger,

You seem to be determined to carry this on, and you appear to be focussed more on this question of who is - or is not - being "rude" than on understanding the real problem ( bad data ).

Perhaps you might find a little enlightenment if you spent some time looking at the archives here, with the emphasis on exchanges that have been taking place since around 2002 ( six years or so before you joined ). I don't think you'll make a very good referee for a virtual boxing match if you only get into the ring in the eleventh round.

You are apparently English? I fail to see that the fact that the website is International has anything to do with the cultural traits of the English.

Let me remind you that you brought the question of my nationality up, sir. Only you will really know your intentions in doing so. But having brought that subject up, you now question its relevance? Where exactly were you trying to go with that?

Now once again, Alan - what is your point? What is the problem that is so great that you feel the need to be rude? Further, why is it so important to you?

If you don't see it now then I don't know how I can make it any more clear to you. The data on the zhome.com page in question was plain wrong. The author ignores queries as to its accuracy, and instead calls into question the accuracy of a website that is far more specialised in the subject than his own. Then the data on zhome.com is "updated" - but it is still misleading. Call this to the author's attention and people seem more interested in questioning the intentions of the person bringing the matter up than in making sure the data is correct and reliable.

Why is "it" so important to me? Are you kidding? You mention that you work in "Academia" ( congratulations ) and then you want me to explain to you why accurate and reliable data is important........? Quite extraordinary.

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I understand the fight going on here and think it's a valid fight that could go on another 6 years easy. I am not about to join in on any of that. Been there done that and know better.

BUT, is there any chance that we could get it going in it's own post? This was a post for racing photos of the past. Now there are pages of text with a few pics here and there.

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Alan, I admire your relentless quest for historical fact. Rob, I admire your desire to argue as gentlemen. Now as my wife who is a school teacher would say, "A gold star for both of you". I wish I was an Admin so I could impose the "boobs thread law". If you don't post a picture, don't post.

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Alan, I admire your relentless quest for historical fact. Rob, I admire your desire to argue as gentlemen. Now as my wife who is a school teacher would say, "A gold star for both of you". I wish I was an Admin so I could impose the "boobs thread law". If you don't post a picture, don't post.

You said this then you didn't post a pic...

Here is mine...:finger:

I agree, back to the initial focus of the thread...and its excellent intentions!

Will

Ps, I can't post anymore-I have no pictures....

Edited by hls30.com

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Here are a couple more snaps from my Dad's vault, he just sent me these :)

In his words:

Some More from the archives....in the early morning mist (@ Lime Rock)... Bob backs 'er down the planks, no fancy tail gate lifts!

Here's to more pics (and less controversy)

Cheers,

Colin

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Here indeed!

Keep prodding your father to search that vault... Those are beautiful.

Here are a couple more snaps from my Dad's vault, he just sent me these :)

In his words:

Some More from the archives....in the early morning mist (@ Lime Rock)... Bob backs 'er down the planks, no fancy tail gate lifts!

Here's to more pics (and less controversy)

Cheers,

Colin

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Phillip,

In your post on the first page of this thread there is a series of pictures ending with a shot of the start of a CP race showing several Zs. Can I get a copy of this print? I have the white ex-Leitzinger 280z shown in the last picture and would love to get a copy.

Mike Unger

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Phillip,

In your post on the first page of this thread there is a series of pictures ending with a shot of the start of a CP race showing several Zs. Can I get a copy of this print? I have the white ex-Leitzinger 280z shown in the last picture and would love to get a copy.

Mike Unger

Great to hear you own the Leitzinger 280z, but unfortunately I don't own any of those photos, they're all compliments of Greyghost (aka Steve Gunderson). I beleive most are scans from his collection. You could try PM'ing him. Or anyone with a decent printer and good paper could simply print the digitial file for you, though the files aren't very large, I'm not sure how well they'd turn out.

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Let's go back to 1976 for a moment. Elliot Forbes-Robinson would take over driving duties for Bob Sharp who was injured in an accident in 1975. Bob had won the SCCA C-production national championship in '72, '73, and '75 having given it up in '74 to Walt Maas in his 260Z. Bob was campaigning a 280Z in SCCA C-production and a 240Z in IMSA Grand Touring Under 2.5 liter displacement. He was GTU champion in 1975. However eight of the eleven IMSA GTU races in 1976 went to Brad Frisselle and his 240Z. Brad drove to victory with John Morton in the Mid Ohio 6-hour and the Road Atlanta 1000k. Elliot Forbes-Robinson won only at Pocono where he finished a spectacular third overall. Here is a Datsun press release photo of the two cars from 1976. Sorry for the quality. The original documents are really old.

Chris,

Here are a couple more pictures of the Frisselle car from 1976 I thought you might be interested in. That is John Morton in the gold racing suit running over to swap drivers.

-Mike

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Nice pictures, Mike. I notice that the B&Ws are eBay pics. Do you know if / what the car sold for?

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Nice pictures, Mike. I notice that the B&Ws are eBay pics. Do you know if / what the car sold for?

Actually they are all pictures from an ebay auction I won, but not for a car. It was an auction for a poster of the Brad Frisselle car at Mid-Ohio. I was just too lazy to scan the photos when I could just post the ad pics. I'm thinking of starting a new Nissan/Datsun poster thread, so I will show the poster there.

The auction also included two original unused Transcendental Racing stickers. You can see parts of the stickers on the car in the photos I posted.

-Mike

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I stumbled across these from various SCCA Nationals at Blackhawk Farms, Grattan, Mid Ohio.

The #81 Gerry Mason, GT2, I can only assume this is the #3 BRE car The #53 is Ellis Meister. The #33 ZX is of course the BSR/Paul Newman, GT1. The #85 ZX is Logan BLackburn

Here's the original url:

http://mwphoto-misc.smugmug.com/Cars/SCCA-NATIONALS

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Great photos Philip! this looks to be the ex-Logan Blackburn car, that is the #3 BRE car?...I know that Gerry will be at the Mitty this year perhaps we can ask him then.

Gerry Sr. Did have a 240Z that he built and campaigned, it could be that car also. I am not sure. Great shots all around, I will have to see if I can find my roadster as it raced at blackhawk farms a few times.

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Great photos Philip! this looks to be the ex-Logan Blackburn car, that is the #3 BRE car?...I know that Gerry will be at the Mitty this year perhaps we can ask him then.

Gerry Sr. Did have a 240Z that he built and campaigned, it could be that car also. I am not sure. Great shots all around, I will have to see if I can find my roadster as it raced at blackhawk farms a few times.

From what I understand Logan's was the ex-BRE car. I was unaware Gerry Sr. build another one?? I did not know the Masons will be at Mitty either. What a bummer for me, I can probably make it down there next year with my car, but not this one. Gerry Jr. and the #3 are FAST. He clicked off some laps at Elkhart 10 years ago which still would have him in the top 5 at the same event.

That's cool your car raced at Blackhawk. Yeah, check out the folders in the url, I did see some roadsters in there.

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Hi Philip, Sorry to hear that you are going to miss the Mitty. It's going to be special.

Gerry Sr. did campaign a 240Z prior to the blackburn car. I know that Gerry Jr. was/is planning on restoring it. My roadster is Gerry Sr.'s first Datsun racer.

Best,

Ron

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Here is some of my Dad's GT2 race car back in the 80's at Sears Point

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This is Joel Anderson old Z. My dad bought from him back in the day.

Edited by PPIGT2

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This is a postcard of the same car as in post #73 but has some different graphics. Was this photo taken before or after post #73? The back states, "Test drive A DATSUN CHAMPION." below that, "Pictured is The New York Metropolitan DATSUN Dealers 610." Lower left corner is 135648. The publisher appears (to me) to be Dexter Press from Dexter, New York.

Bonzi Lon

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