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240z ignition points problem

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#1
richard1

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I have more and more problems to find good ignition points sets for my 240z and I discovered today that the MotorSport product is the exact same garbage as a local import resaler here. The exact same design that makes your car fire on four cylinders instead of six or don't even start.

Both are manufactured in Taiwan with different boxes but exactly the same wrong design about fit and the fiber brush location.

Today, I went to a NAPA store and I bought the STANDARD brand, JTP2 point set (dual points).

My car now flies instead of having a hard time to pick up.

When BOSH points were available, I have never had a problem with my ignition system.

I have back order points from Motorsport but I will cancel my order and/or send them back.

All the other products as the condensors are OK and made in Japan. Stay away of the Taiwan stuff.
richard1

#2
Arne

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My '71 manual transmission has the stock single point distributor, I used Standard Blue Streak JP6X in it with Bosch cap and rotor. Works perfectly.

Nothing against MSA, as I like them and do buy from them. But things like this that are available locally, I buy locally. Why pay shipping when you can pick it up on your way home?
Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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#3
EScanlon

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I understand the allure of a "bone stock" engine, but why not look into the ZX dizzy or even a Pertronix? You get rid of the vaguaries of points (dwell, etc.) and you get the same even spark throughout the range.

While the ZX wouldn't look stock, the Pertronix could be hidden such that only removing the distributor cap or a very careful close inspection would you be able to tell.

Then again, if nothing but bone stock will do....what was the date stamp on the points you installed? J/K

E

#4
Arne

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I understand the allure of a "bone stock" engine, but why not look into the ZX dizzy or even a Pertronix?


Well, for one reason, points ignitions don't generally fail without warning, like an electronic ignition module can. And I can service points systems myself. Not so with an electronic.

Yes, I agree that there are several good reasons to go to electronic. All the specs are superior. But in the real world it's not that simple.

For example, I actually do have a ZX ignition, which I have not been able to get working properly. The car runs great with the points, but acts like it has a 4000 RPM rev limiter with the ZX ignition with either one of two different E12-80 modules. Yes, I should spend some time and figure out why, but there's not much motivation to do so when the original points work so well.
Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

#5
EScanlon

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Well for those that enjoy working on their engine on a routine basis...then have at it. Not everyone relishes going out and disassembling their engine for s.... and grins, some of us just like to drive the car.

I had my car tuned with the electronic dizzy going on 6 years ago...and it still starts and runs well, without a weekly tweak of the points, dwell etc. I have a ZX dizzy and haven't had problems.

Richard mentioned having problems with getting a good set of points, he finally found some and your suggestion of a different item number will help him in the future.

In the "real world" points ARE getting harder and harder to find, and then you may be forced to accept the Taiwanese cheapies or go electronic.

E

#6
barth4567

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I will put my two cents in here. I fought the points thing on my 1972 for about three years. I wanted to stay completely "stock" as well. I mean my car pinged badly, and just never did run as I thought it should or as other stock Z"s that I was around did. New points (Japanese) wires (Beck Arnley) new vacum advance (OEM Nissan) advance the timing, retard the timing and on and on. Ran premium gas all the time. Finally went out and got a 80-81 280 distributor with E-1280 Module and a new blaster 2 Coil. Beandip and jetjoc240 helped me put it in awhile back( Took a whole hour) and oh my god, what a difference it made. The performance is much better,revs better, absolutely no pinging either. I watch my gas mileage very closely and it went from 21.5MPG to 24.5MPg as well. I am amazed what a difference it has made. Now I am wondering why I waited so long. Possibly the best non-stock upgrade I could have made. Except maybe the next one. ROFL Now my only problem is locating an extra module, and that won,t be too hard. I am no expert and this is only my opinion for whats it's worth. It didn't take too much to put a smile on my face. Thanks Guys

#7
Walter Moore

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Yes electronic ignition is great, but it isn't EMP resistant like points...ROFL

I kid you not, one of my teenage sons was impressed by the fact that my Z had points because "Did you know that this is the only car we own that would run after a nuclear war?" :tapemouth

Somehow I suspect that I would have other concerns than the Z if that happened... Just a hunch.
'71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

#8
AggieZ

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hmmmm,
Reminds me of a problem I had with my first 240 back in 1985. (22 years ago... sheesh I'm getting old) ;) It turned out to be a cracked cap on the ignition coil. It was arc'ing to the frame. My father spotted it because it was getting late in the day and was getting dark. A little tale tell sign of a small blue arc.

Anyway, just food for thought.

#9
richard1

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My son is an engineer and do the maintenance of the Z. Some years ago, I mentioned to him that the best would be to go with electronic ignition and he told me it was out of question.

He is not under the hood every week and to set up new points take him less than ten minutes with all the adjustments and timing ( he has a trick ).

The only other point sets that I found are the Standard Blue Streak as mentioned above but the problem is they wear very fast because the " blade " is plastic instead of fiber on the regular Standard Brand ( red box ).

I also prefer to keep it stock as it has been at the time because mine is bone stock down to the hubcaps and it is the way I like it.

Now, I will buy " many Standard red Boxes points sets ". My car run smooth with them and I will keep a stock of them.
richard1

#10
EScanlon

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Walter:
What about the Points Condensor....that can't be too EMP resistant.

Then again, as you pointed out....where would you be driving to?

E

#11
Arne

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Now my only problem is locating an extra module, and that won,t be too hard.

John, I got my spare from a local pick-n-pull for free, when I was buying a used wheel. Don't look for a ZX, those ignitions are generally all gone, and the ZX only used the E12-80 for two years. But carb'd 210s, 510s, pickups and other four cylinder Nissans also used the E12-80, and those cars are easier to find than the early ZXs. My spare module is off a 210 wagon.
Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

#12
EScanlon

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Richard:
We discussed the Points/Electronic situation and if you either are, or have access to, a capable mechanic to whom that type of adjustment is a piece of cake, then the simplicity of the system cannot be argued. To many it's a "no-brainer", to others it's a "hair puller".

Granted, as you mentioned, as points become more elusive in the in-stock availability at your local parts store, you'll need to keep some in stock yourself to continue using them. Sounds like you're already headed there.

Small question to the side though, if your car is "bone stock" down to the hubcaps, are you forgetting the Honda Fan Motor that was giving you grief earlier? And what about the Blade Fuses you had recommended to you?

My point in bringing that up, isn't to "call you out" but rather to underline that to some car enthusiasts the newer items are more than just "succumbing to the inevitable" but rather that much of the newer technology has replaced old technology because it IS better. You upgraded the fan motor for the additional push of air that you wanted that the original motor could not provide.

There ARE situations where change is forced upon you....Leaded Gas anyone? But while points may in fact be original, OEM, and "stock", so are Bias-Ply tires, DOT3 brake fluid, Lead/Acid celled batteries and non-synthetic engine oil, just to name a few items.

But aside from Concourse cars, and Garage Queens, most drivers have made the "sacrifice" to some form of newer technology. Your car has A/C...some would argue whether it's OEM or not, and now it has a Honda motor. I'll wager that even some Garage Queens have newer Radial tires. Possibly not at the Concourse level, but is it "original" factory air in the tire? (Just kidding... LOL)

We are all faced with accepting some modifications to our cars. Some because technology no longer supports the original configuration, and some because it is perceived as better.

2ยข
E

#13
beandip

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It was mentioned that the ZX ignition can fail with out notice. This true, I had one module fail on me. The engine just quit . Out of the blue. No missing , stumble nothing . I got out and took a look to see if a power lead or something was he trouble . finding all intact tried to restart the engine and she fired right up and I had no further trouble , for about 3 months. It failed again and this is when I found the problem. I changed the module , 15 min. tops. I have had no further problems . This is going on 4 years . I do keep a module for a spare in the glove box with a stubby Philips . Just in case. So far no further trouble. I used this ignition on my L-24 as well as my present ZX engine with vary good results. It is amazing how much better the engines run with this ignition. Gary:nervous:
I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

#14
dualies

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so many electronic ignition system out there, which one work and look the best for you guys? I have no problem so far wth my stock ignition, but I think I should start look into this.

#15
DeesZ

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Dualies, you'll likely get 5 different suggestions here.... so here's mine:
On my '72 (manual transmission) I use a Pertronix, and am quite pleased with the results. Installation was also very easy, and it is only a trained eye that will be able to detect that it is there.
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1973 - HLS30-132236 - RIP - Reduced to boxes of spare parts in the garage

#16
Arne

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I really don't think that there is any big difference between any of the electronic ignition choices for Z. Any of them will provide more consistent spark, provided that the distributor itself is in good shape. If you use a distributor with worn shaft bushings (either a worn ZX unit, or installing Pertronix or some such in a worn stock unit), or one with a non-functioning vacuum advance unit, don't expect much improvement. That's the often-overlooked part of this conversion. People stick a Pertronix in a sloppy stock 240Z distributor, or slap on a tired ZX distributor and expect it to be perfect. But these units still require the shaft and vacuum advance to be in good shape.

Actually, as I mentioned in a post above, I don't have any issues still running on points. But I will eventually convert to a ZX ignition, if for no other reason than stopping any further wear on my original 240Z distributor.
Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

#17
Carl Beck

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.........
There ARE situations where change is forced upon you....Leaded Gas anyone? But while points may in fact be original, OEM, and "stock", so are Bias-Ply tires, DOT3 brake fluid, Lead/Acid celled batteries and non-synthetic engine oil, just to name a few items.


Hi E.
Point taken, but just so we don't mislead anyone....Bias-Ply tires were not Stock on the Datsun 240-Z in the US/Canada. I understand that certain models of the JDM Fairlady Z were equipped with them.

We are still using Lead/Acid celled batteries... even if the cell is now filled with foam, or the acid contained in a material matrix... It is somewhat amazing that hasn't changed over the past 35 years with our Z's. Or for that matter over the past 100 years...


FWIW,
Carl B.

#18
zztom

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Hi all, I installed a Pertronix ign. in my 71 and also the Motorsport upgraded fusebox. There hasnt been a problem yet (2 years).
71 240Z HLS3019867 1/71 prod. date
Z-THERAPY carbs
Pertronix ign, Flamethrower coil, Taylor 8mm wires
Motorsport blade fuse box
ARIZONA Z-CAR 6-1 header
Centerforce clutch
Tokico Illumina 5 way struts rear, KYB front
Courtesy Nissan OEM springs
American Racing Outlaw I wheels

#19
Carl Beck

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I really don't think that there is any big difference between any of the electronic ignition choices for Z.


The big choices I see are between having an electronic trigger for the spark - ie replacing the mechanical points with an electronic trigger vs upgrading to a full High Energy Ignition system. The HEI allows larger spark plug gaps that help fire the air/fuel mixture more evenly and which keeps the plug gap's clean. Spark plug changes become 25K to 50k events rather than 6K items.

Over and above that you can go with the various multi-spark units...



FWIW,
Carl B.

#20
dualies

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Saw this guy on ebay, is this the correct one to use on my 71?how can I tell if this is E12-80? I think the seller has no clue.

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