Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 135

Save S30-0002

This is a discussion on Save S30-0002 within the Zcar History forums, part of the RACING AND HISTORY category; Posted by Our Friend Kats in a different thread, but I think a find like this deserves it's own tread. ...


  1. #1
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default Save S30-00002

    Posted by Our Friend Kats in a different thread, but I think a find like this deserves it's own tread.

    Hi,
    just information,Mr.Harigae found and bought S30-00002.The car is almost unable to restore but very interesting to look at it.
    If I have a chance to see it,I would like to see a wiring harness and check date on the decal, I guess S30-00002 was born in June or July 1969.

    kats
    I dont think its too bad to restore. Looks straight, apart from the roof, and maybe some rust, but definatly reparable.

    Dont let this car die!





    Come on Mr Harigae restore the car.
    Last edited by Mr Camouflage; 07-26-2005 at 07:15 AM.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  2. #2
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    It's a shame that the engine appears to be gone.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-6616
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Haverhill, Ma
    Posts
    129

    Default

    its rhd...?


    edit: I guess that would make sense... nevermind....

  4. #4
    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1574
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    SoCal
    Age
    39
    Posts
    904

    Default

    Wow... #2, huh? I feel like I should be bowing in its presence...
    Most impressive that it is in private hands rather than the factory's...
    Can't even imagine how much money was traded for this one... wow
    Thanks for sharing the pic.

    -e

  5. #5
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Where is the other thread? I can't find it.

    Edit: never mind. For some reason searching for the text you copied didn't produce the result.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  6. #6
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Thanks go to Kats for sharing.

    It was mentioned here: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...562#post137562
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  7. #7
    Supporting Member ChrisA's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5906
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,472

    Default

    Looks to be another S30 behind the orange one. Sad but I too bow before it. Very sad.

    Chris
    1973 240Z HLS30-156693

  8. #8
    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6883
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Age
    32
    Posts
    2,171

    Default

    i wonder what happened to her? if only she could tell us where she's been.... that naughty little girl.....
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
    IZCC Member #14186

    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

  9. #9
    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1574
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    SoCal
    Age
    39
    Posts
    904

    Default

    She doesn't look like she rolled.
    I wonder if a tree fell on her... and if it made a sound...

    -e

  10. #10
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Ok, damn-it. You win. That's worse.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-vin-27-007.jpg  
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  11. #11
    Still plays with cars kenz240z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6323
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Berthoud, CO
    Age
    46
    Posts
    738

    Default

    I agree with Mr. Camouflage. Like any project, it's simply a matter of time, effort and money to fix this car, #2. As an amatuer body man, I'd love to test my skills on that roof! Nothing a little hammer & dolly work couldn't fix, by the look of it. If not, then another roof from a suitable donor could be sectioned in along the factory welds/seams.

    It's not apparent from the photo, but #2 doesn't appear to have any major front end or side impact damage. Hopefully not too much rust anywhere, either. What a diamond in the rough!

    I am not worthy!
    Kenny P.

    '73 240Z
    '82 ZX L28
    '82 ZX 5-speed
    Round top SU's
    Tokico HP struts
    Tokico Springs
    Urethane bushings

    my gallery

  12. #12
    Yup, It's Orange CoastGuardZ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2476
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Clermont, FL
    Age
    34
    Posts
    975

    Default

    You know, the real kicker is that she's still wearing a headlight?!?

    Hey! #02 is Orange!!!
    -Nate

    1972 Datsun 240Z #HLS30-47945 (aka: Kikka)
    2007 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab Long Bed SE 4x4 6 spd
    2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8s SE (Wife-Mobile)

  13. #13
    Registered User 240ZX's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1420
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Santa Paula, California
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,884

    Default

    From the condition of #00002, maybe it was stacked on a flatbed with our like cars.....destine for the CRUSHER, but was luckly saved!

  14. #14
    Registered User lonetreesteve's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6600
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lone Tree, CO
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    Are those bullet holes on the side of the car? I wonder if the data plate is still there? Too bad about the engine........ well, I agree with the rest of you, the car needs to be restored.
    Steve

  15. #15
    philo "Z" opher Zedrally's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2363
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,818

    Default

    Wow, what a find. Would this be the oldest S30 [albeit shell], in existance.
    Now I know how Howard Carter felt.......
    Mike of the Mire

    73 240Z Rally
    77 260Z Touring

    Bogged but not beaten

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-1316
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    2,495

    Thumbs up This is fantastic

    This is excellent. I've heard the HS30 and HLS30 #1-3 cars were melted down at the factory never to see day again.
    Obviously S30 0002 was a different story.
    Definately fixable.

    Maybe we could make a T-shirt saying "Save S30 #2" just like the "Save Ferris" T-Shirts all proceeds could go toward restoring this beauty. This car simply has too much history and too much a pedigree to not be restored. Since the S30 is one of the most important cars in Automotive History.

    Great Thread!

  17. #17
    Registered User kats's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3193
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    JAPAN
    Age
    45
    Posts
    837

    Default I am surprised

    Thank you Mr Camouflage,and everyone

    Mr.Harigae will difinetly be happy to see this site,and I am very surprised because so many people think it is restorable.Mr.Harigae is not like ordinaly japanese Z car mania,he will restore it.He think he can do it,so he bought it I think.

    He showed me so many photo of it,I notice some points.
    #1 the car have different years seats and uphostly,so it was used quite often and seems there were a few owners kept driving and enjoying it some around 10 years ago.

    Thank you,

    kats
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  18. #18
    see below
    Member ID
    CZCC-1656
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    2
    Age
    18
    Posts
    657

    Default

    Any idea if it is 110 Red or 918 Orange? It's difficult to tell but I'm leaning more toward red. Thanks for the picture Kats. We would all love to see more.
    michael

  19. #19
    philo "Z" opher Zedrally's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2363
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,818

    Default

    Kat's is there any chance of more photo's?
    I noticed in the top photo, the VIN Plate is still attached to the strut tower. Can you get a shot of this and post to this thread.
    Mike of the Mire

    73 240Z Rally
    77 260Z Touring

    Bogged but not beaten

  20. #20
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Data plate is still on the drivers side (now remember this it a right hand drive car) suspension tower. Its that grey square thing you can see. I dont think the Japanese versions had the one in the door frame. Aussie cars didnt. Think it was a US law requirement, just like the vin being on the dash for all to see.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  21. #21
    Former frequent poster sblake01's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3797
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Bernardino, Ca. U.S.A.
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,567

    Default

    Ah the 'R' word. I agree that is is an incredible find but how could that car ever be truly restored with so many of the key original parts missing?
    2004 Ford Ranger EDGE Supercab
    (@Moonpup: This one really is an EDGE!)
    2005 Pontaic GTO
    2010 Mercedes Benz C300 AMG Sportline (Wife's car)
    2014 Kia Rio LX (Wife's daily driver)
    Certified HVAC/MVAC Technician

  22. #22
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Using replacement parts of course. When i say restore I mean fix it up back to a nice, presentable, drivable, condition. I dont mean turn it into museam piece.

    I dont really care that it might have the wrong luggage straps, or series 2 seats, or the chalk marks may be wrong, etc.

    Though i'm sure Kats could advise Mr Harigae on the correct parts for such an early car.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  23. #23
    Former frequent poster sblake01's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3797
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Bernardino, Ca. U.S.A.
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,567

    Default

    I wasn't trying to be a wet blanket. I would like to see this car brought back to life. I just think that it would be more of a challenge than say Chris (26&27) is facing. From what I have read it would be the earliest numbered remaining example of the Z.
    2004 Ford Ranger EDGE Supercab
    (@Moonpup: This one really is an EDGE!)
    2005 Pontaic GTO
    2010 Mercedes Benz C300 AMG Sportline (Wife's car)
    2014 Kia Rio LX (Wife's daily driver)
    Certified HVAC/MVAC Technician

  24. #24
    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6883
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Age
    32
    Posts
    2,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav240z
    Maybe we could make a T-shirt saying "Save S30 #2" just like the "Save Ferris" T-Shirts all proceeds could go toward restoring this beauty...
    and then someone would name a band "Save S30 #2"!

    ya, it could never be "restored" to concours since the engine is more than likely never going to be found, but for it to be restored back into original type condition is enough for me to be happy..
    Last edited by e_racer1999; 07-21-2005 at 10:55 AM.
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
    IZCC Member #14186

    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

  25. #25
    bemmerguy714 bemmerguy714's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-8546
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Costa mesa
    Age
    26
    Posts
    374

    Default

    Who is Mr.Harigae

  26. #26
    the QuackWacker GunnerRob's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2803
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Ventura, Ca. USA
    Age
    60
    Posts
    694

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bemmerguy714
    Who is Mr.Harigae
    He's the owner of the car we're talking about in this thread.
    Save S30-0002

  27. #27
    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6883
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Age
    32
    Posts
    2,171

    Default

    i'm confused... that page you linked to is the same as this one only 6 pages...... strange...
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
    IZCC Member #14186

    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

  28. #28
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by e_racer1999
    i'm confused... that page you linked to is the same as this one only 6 pages...... strange...
    Not strange. It is a link to this same thread but has the "pp=5" option in the URL that causes it to show only 5 posts per page hence the large number of pages.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  29. #29
    bemmerguy714 bemmerguy714's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-8546
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Costa mesa
    Age
    26
    Posts
    374

    Default

    Does anyone know where the #1 car is?

  30. #30
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    bemmerguy714,
    Just to clarify ( in case you didn't realise ) - this car is 'S30-00002', and presumably 'S30-00001' did also exist - but ( theoretically at least ) so did:

    *'PS30-00001'
    *'HLS30-00001'
    *'HS30-00001'

    Apologies if you realised this, but I thought it worth mentioning.




    Mr Harigae has certainly got a good claim as being the "S30-series Z VIN-number-bingo King"

    This car has got to be saved. One day it ought to be part of Nissan's museum collection ( when they finally MAKE their own proper museum, that is ).

    Talk about the 'missing' engine could be tempered with the mention that this car would not have had its L20A engine number stamped onto its engine-bay VIN tag from the Factory. There was no facility for this on the Japanese home market cars; they only had the chassis number stamped on them. Which means that a suitably early L20A engine block could be sourced from a mid-1969 Cedric or Gloria and nobody would be any wiser.

    All this car needs is a pinch of pragmatism and a whole lot of time and money spent on it.

    Ganbatte Harigae san!

    Alan T.

  31. #31
    bemmerguy714 bemmerguy714's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-8546
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Costa mesa
    Age
    26
    Posts
    374

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    bemmerguy714,
    Just to clarify ( in case you didn't realise ) - this car is 'S30-00002', and presumably 'S30-00001' did also exist - but ( theoretically at least ) so did:

    *'PS30-00001'
    *'HLS30-00001'
    *'HS30-00001'

    Apologies if you realised this, but I thought it worth mentioning.




    Mr Harigae has certainly got a good claim as being the "S30-series Z VIN-number-bingo King"

    This car has got to be saved. One day it ought to be part of Nissan's museum collection ( when they finally MAKE their own proper museum, that is ).

    Talk about the 'missing' engine could be tempered with the mention that this car would not have had its L20A engine number stamped onto its engine-bay VIN tag from the Factory. There was no facility for this on the Japanese home market cars; they only had the chassis number stamped on them. Which means that a suitably early L20A engine block could be sourced from a mid-1969 Cedric or Gloria and nobody would be any wiser.

    All this car needs is a pinch of pragmatism and a whole lot of time and money spent on it.

    Ganbatte Harigae san!

    Alan T.


    wait i'm really confused now. What are the diffrences between these cars? i know they last 5 numbers mean. whats the "p", "hl" and "hs" mean? S30 id the body style right? ON my car is reads "HLS30-64437". Can someone please explain these numbers to me or even better yet give me a link?

    *'PS30-00001'
    *'HLS30-00001'
    *'HS30-00001'

  32. #32
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Another newbie to the VIN code conversation, Alan!

    Bemmerguy,

    We seem to be able to only speculate on what was actually car #1 as all the serial numbers for the various model designations began with -00001. What would have been built at the time would be various models of the S30 chassis intended for various sales markets. The S30 and the S30S designations were for Fairlady Zs in the Japanese market with the standard engine being the L20. The H signifies fitment of the L24 engine (and much later the L28E engine). L signifies left-hand drive. The PS30 was the FairladyZ 432 with the S20 engine. The PS30SB was the FairladyZ 432-R.

    For example, here is what I have been told by two separate excellent sources as HS30-00026, a right-hand drive L24 engined Datsun 240Z. Same serial number, different car. I liken to imagine that this is Her Majesty's sister the racing warrior.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-hs30-00026_696-71-welsh.jpg  
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  33. #33
    Deftly daft Alfadog's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1243
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC, Australia.
    Age
    29
    Posts
    4,536

    Default

    Holy shmokes! It does look in poor condition, and it's true many of the parts it's meant to have seem to be missing but... I think no.2 deserves to be in a better state than that! I wish Mr. Harigae good luck and hope he decides to bring her back to life.

    bemmerguy, there are loads of topics on the forums about the chassis codes, if you want to learn more about the many differences between models and markets.

  34. #34
    Z fever Fun_in_my_z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5338
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    3,965
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Damn my parts cars are all in better shape then that!. Low down dirty shame.
    HLS30-217804 6/75 "The Unnatural One"

    One
    Big
    Ass
    Mistake
    America

  35. #35
    Registered User daddz's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3015
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Washington, D.C. suburbs
    Age
    43
    Posts
    627

    Default

    This car is an extraordinary find and I hope that it is restored/rescued etc...Hopefully Nissan in its newfound prosperity recognizes this oppurtunity to save an historically significant S30.
    http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb203/daddsun/

    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=3015
    77 280Z HLS30366531
    78 280Z HLS30434713
    78 280Z HLS30456240
    81 280ZX hardtop blackout pkg
    81 280ZX hardtop
    83 280ZX hardtop
    86 300ZX hardtop *146597
    86 300ZX hardtop *148652
    96 300ZX hardtop LP2
    03 350Z AX8

    86.5 Toyota Supra hardtop
    87 Mazda RX-7 base hardtop

  36. #36
    Registered User moyest's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4987
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Age
    38
    Posts
    121

    Default But no engine!

    Having read this thread, I'm still a bit perplexed why anyone (especially Nissan) would throw a whole bunch of money into restoring #2 without the original engine?

    Sure, it would be great to see the #2 chassis back on the road, and even better to OWN it. But it'll probably end up being powered by #14257 engine or something. So the sheer expense of the restoration may far exceed its worth.

    I guess my STATEMENTS are really QUESTIONS though!

    What's your opinion re: the value at the end of such a mamoth restoration?

  37. #37
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Since I'm the one who brought up the missing engine first I think it's important to point out that we really don't know much about it. The original engine might just be nearby but out of the picture. Also, as Alan pointed out, this car would not have an ID plate listing the engine number so it really doesn't matter if it's a "matching numbers" car. Unless someone finds 00001 then this car is obviously the oldest known S30 and as such has a tremendous amount of appeal to a collector.

    Hopefully Kats will be able to provide us with more detail about this car in the future.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  38. #38
    Registered User halz's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1743
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    707

    Default what, no engine?

    Many will tell you that I'm a 'matching numbers' purist, so what I'm about to say will seem odd:

    It doesn't matter!

    The near proto-S30 age of this chassis overrides the fact that the original engine may be lost for all time. If the car is restored with an L20 engine (remember, this is a home-market car)and an appropriate documented history, it will still be a far more historic/desirable car than any later model with non-matching numbers.
    halz
    ---------------------------
    New headers and 2.25" sports system: They say "loud doesn't mean fast"... I'm just testing the theory!

  39. #39
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-1316
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    2,495

    Default

    Yes I agree I don't think the missing engine matters what matters is the chassis number and the fact that it would be almost impossible to find an earlier Z.

    At the end of the day I know it's a bit controversial to say this but the numbers on the motor are just that numbers stamped by a machine of course you wouldn't put a Chevy V8 in it though .

  40. #40
    Registered User kats's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3193
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    JAPAN
    Age
    45
    Posts
    837

    Default some additional info

    Hello,

    I asked more photos to Mr.Harigae so will be available soon.And he said this car has automatic trans!!He and his friends think this car had been used as a test car in the Nissan.I suggested him to trace the owner back to its origine we can do it in Japan but Mr.Harigae said that car does not have a licence plate,he said it is impossible to do it.I just want to know who owned this car or if it had never been owned by someone,it means Nissan owned it then threw it away to a junk yard.

    It was a quite positive rumor that there is the S30-00002 in the jank yard north of Tokyo area.I heard of it once before but I did not think it was true. Mr.Harigae bought it from there,matching area as the rumor.

    The attached photo is a shot of underneath of S30-00002.
    Mr Camouflage,please do not mind but I would like to say about the title of this thread.It needs 4 zeros!"S30-00002". I had never seen such a lot of Zeros before the chassis number.

    Thank you,

    kats
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-under00002.jpg  
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  41. #41
    Former frequent poster sblake01's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3797
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Bernardino, Ca. U.S.A.
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,567

    Default

    It also appears to have had air conditionig
    2004 Ford Ranger EDGE Supercab
    (@Moonpup: This one really is an EDGE!)
    2005 Pontaic GTO
    2010 Mercedes Benz C300 AMG Sportline (Wife's car)
    2014 Kia Rio LX (Wife's daily driver)
    Certified HVAC/MVAC Technician

  42. #42
    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1574
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    SoCal
    Age
    39
    Posts
    904

    Default

    Again: Fantastic!
    True fairy tale of the ultimate junkyard find - I love stories like this...

    -e

  43. #43
    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3789
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    West Hills, Portland, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    969

    Default

    uhh, looks like the floor boards need replacing....

    Geeze, a 'rumor' that the 00002 is in the junkyard?

    "Hey Tex, you hear about the 00005 at u-pull-it o'er in Fresno?"
    "ahh, dats dust a rumor!"
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
    Early '72 red 110 / white (10/71)
    HLS30 56895

  44. #44
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    This thread sort of blows the old rumor that all JDM cars that are retired from the streets are sunk in the ocean.

    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  45. #45
    Z fever Fun_in_my_z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5338
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    3,965
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    ocean? what have you been smoking will?

    It doesnt look to be in to bad of shape. I hope he will repair it.
    HLS30-217804 6/75 "The Unnatural One"

    One
    Big
    Ass
    Mistake
    America

  46. #46
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Automatic transmission? Brian Long says the automatic transmission wasn't introduced to the S30 until October 1970. I don't know if this would be stamped into the VIN, but if it is an S30S, Long says it wasn't introduced until March of 1971. Wadaya say about that!?!?!!

    Kats, if you get to see the car and take photos, please show me the welds like these. These differ from later cars. They have a distinct weld nipple in the very center. Compare these welds to a '71 or '72 and you will notice the difference.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-tub-s30_i-fabweld-0003.jpg  
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  47. #47
    Registered User NZeder's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-7025
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    Automatic transmission? Brian Long says the automatic transmission wasn't introduced to the S30 until October 1970. I don't know if this would be stamped into the VIN, but if it is an S30S, Long says it wasn't introduced until March of 1971. Wadaya say about that!?!?!!

    Kats, if you get to see the car and take photos, please show me the welds like these. These differ from later cars. They have a distinct weld nipple in the very center. Compare these welds to a '71 or '72 and you will notice the difference.
    different market different specs again. I once owned HS30-00016 (young and looking to buy my first house so the rusty 70's customized Zed went down the road - should have kept it I know). This car still had the plug leads with 1970 stamped on them (yes they did not work too well over 5000rpm). Anyway it was fitted with a 5 spd from the factory and as I believe the LHD US spec cars did not get a 5spd until much later. However most of the early 240z I have seen here in NZ are all 5spd even the 1970 ones like my old HS30-00016 (the 5 spd was an A box - the kind that has the bolt up at the rear of the gearbox and then a spline in the drive shaft). So it could be true that the S30-00002 was indeed an auto remember this is a S30 not a HS30 or HLS30 so different spec are expected.
    76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
    Previous
    70 HS30-00016 240z
    72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
    71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
    79 HS130 280zx
    82 HS130 280zx T top
    2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
    74 KB210 120Y Coupe
    71 510 1600 Deluxe

  48. #48
    Registered User texasz's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3356
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    1,926

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dogma420
    "Hey Tex, you hear about the 00005 at u-pull-it o'er in Fresno?"
    "ahh, dats dust a rumor!"
    Not certain if you were meaning me or Tex as is just some random guy. I do hope that you are joking about 00005 though...otherwise you better tell me which u-pull-it and nobody else...or the girl get's it!
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
    '70 240Z - HLS30-06293 - Rusty and has Identity Crisis (must have been wrecked and the back 1/2 sectioned in from a later car maybe even a 280Z)...PARTS CAR!
    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

    My Photo Gallery

  49. #49
    WESTCOASTZRACER ron carter's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-932
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Sunny Oceanside, CA, USA
    Age
    48
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    The Restoration of HS30-000002 is an uphill battle for sure. There does not appear to be a straight panel on her. A good early donor car is going to be necessary to repair this one properly...good luck.

  50. #50
    Annoying User mull's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4423
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Age
    32
    Posts
    166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ron carter
    The Restoration of HS30-000005 is an uphill battle for sure. There does not appear to be a straight panel on her.
    Who's restoring The No.5 ? Any pictures of the process/progress?

    Must say I'm thrilled No.2 just popped up on the grid like this - a junk yard find. Awesome!

  51. #51
    Registered User kats's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3193
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    JAPAN
    Age
    45
    Posts
    837

    Default It did exist but not apply

    Hello 26th-Z,

    I know Brian said that,and I think it is correct.Do you remember one of two test vehicles for the U.S. & Canada in late 1969 had a automatic transmission ? The automatic trans existed already in late 1969 just it was not released until mid 1970.Also Nov 1969 parts catalog listed parts numbers for the automatic transmission.

    S30-00002 was released to out side of the factory but I think that car was originaly not for the customer,so it was given the automatic trans before Nissan officaily made auto trans S30.

    And about rivets of radiator support,I already notice it and I am showing it in my web site.When I boght my 240Z,Tetsu (restorer) told me that rivets are the good sign of early production.I think manufacturing process was a kind of slow in early days,so they have a time and money to put those rivets?

    Thank you,

    kats

    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903/rivets.html
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  52. #52
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Hi Kats,

    Yes, I remember the North America Test cars. One had automatic transmission. I was surprised to hear 2nd-Z had one. She must be very serious royalty! All my best to Harigae san.

    Chris
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  53. #53
    Former frequent poster sblake01's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3797
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Bernardino, Ca. U.S.A.
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mull
    Who's restoring The No.5 ? Any pictures of the process/progress?

    Must say I'm thrilled No.2 just popped up on the grid like this - a junk yard find. Awesome!
    I don't think anyone is restoring no. 5. The '00005' referrence was just a tounge-in-cheek comment earlier in this thread. I believe Ron meant to say 00002.
    2004 Ford Ranger EDGE Supercab
    (@Moonpup: This one really is an EDGE!)
    2005 Pontaic GTO
    2010 Mercedes Benz C300 AMG Sportline (Wife's car)
    2014 Kia Rio LX (Wife's daily driver)
    Certified HVAC/MVAC Technician

  54. #54
    WESTCOASTZRACER ron carter's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-932
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Sunny Oceanside, CA, USA
    Age
    48
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    yes, 02 not 05....now corrected on the post.

  55. #55
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ron carter
    The Restoration of HS30-000002 is an uphill battle for sure.
    S30-00002, not HS30-000002.

  56. #56
    WESTCOASTZRACER ron carter's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-932
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Sunny Oceanside, CA, USA
    Age
    48
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    Whatever , you know what I mean.

  57. #57
    Deftly daft Alfadog's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1243
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC, Australia.
    Age
    29
    Posts
    4,536

    Default



    Since not many original parts will be able to be used, I wonder if Mr. Harigae will want to restore it with an "original" automatic transmission, or manual?

  58. #58
    OK! ...I made it up. g72s20's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6441
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    564

    Talking You Guys!!

    I cracked up when I saw these posts
    Could you imagine the fun if we had a clubhouse?!!
    Aaahh it's all good fun yeah?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-you-guys..-.jpg  
    Regards,
    Jim.


    1972 Skyline GT-X (GT-R copy)KGC10

    Prince & Skyline spoken here

  59. #59
    Registered User kats's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3193
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    JAPAN
    Age
    45
    Posts
    837

    Default More pictures available

    Hi,all!

    Mr.Harigae sent me a CD of S30-00002.I post some of them,please take a look carefully.

    My quick impression of this car is,"very complecated" or how do you say, "doutfu?l".Because so many parts seen in this car are known as "1971 model"
    My eyes went following these points,
    #1 Dash center vent,grilled
    #2 Break master Vac is large type
    #3 Steering wheel spoke has holes
    #4 2 tool boxes in the rear deck
    #5 rear suspention member"carved for a later defferential"
    #6 Seats and carpet is not like 1969 assembled Z car
    #7 rear quater panels has air vent

    So,generaly speaking,this car could be a 1971 car.But I do not know.
    What a complecated thing is,the VIN punched on the fire wall.
    It is very clean and for me,no evidence to be re-attached or re numberd by someone.
    What do you think of this?

    I guess 2 stories.
    #1 This car was assembled in 1971.But given S30-00002 for this car I do not know why.Of cource true S30-00002 was born in Mid 1969,but let's say it was scrapped for the test in the factory,so the number was disapeared from the earth.I dout Nissan used the number "S30-00002" again at the begining of 1971 model production????
    #2 This car is not original S30-00002,could be S30-xxxxxx.Only the VIN portion was transfared from S30-00002 with very carfully "profesional cosmetic sergery".Or,this car's half front is S30-00002 but half rear end is S30-xxxxxx(1971 model).

    Please help me every one!

    kats

    P.S. Mr.Harigae said to me,he is very glad to hear so many people see and talk about this car.He said please discuss whatever related this car,he is also excited about some facts will be found.I have got the clearance about post pictures and post coments(whatever) from him.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-hfront.jpg   Save S30-0002-hinterior.jpg   Save S30-0002-henginebay.jpg   Save S30-0002-hreardeck.jpg   Save S30-0002-hreardef.jpg  

    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  60. #60
    Registered User kats's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3193
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    JAPAN
    Age
    45
    Posts
    837

    Default want to check Harnesses

    I want to look up harnesses.Enging bay one and inside dash one.Do they much date approximately?Or if they do not much,what differece is there?

    kats
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-hinterior.jpg   Save S30-0002-hvin.jpg   Save S30-0002-htail.jpg  
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  61. #61
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    My eyes went following these points,
    #1 Dash center vent,grilled
    #2 Break master Vac is large type
    #3 Steering wheel spoke has holes
    #4 2 tool boxes in the rear deck
    #5 rear suspention member"carved for a later defferential"
    #6 Seats and carpet is not like 1969 assembled Z car
    #7 rear quater panels has air vent
    1,2,3,5, and 6 could have easily been changed at some point. #4 and #7 don't make sense to have been redone, especially #4. Is there any chance that this car is an one-off factory prototype of the later features? Could part of the shell been laying around the factory when someone later decided to go ahead and make it a production car? Perhaps a good way to determine the age would be to look for the type of hand made stitch welding that 26thZ pointed out earlier.

    Your theory of forging the VIN seems strange to me. By the looks of the car that would have been done quite some time ago, perhaps before there was a true appreciation for the historical nature of these cars.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  62. #62
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    One more theory: perhaps it was just a factory error. Presumably the firewall VIN was done by hand somehow. Perhaps this really should have been HS30-10002 and someone just made a mistake. Is there a matching VIN on the dash or any of the ID tags?
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  63. #63
    Pimp Daddy S30TRBO's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3199
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    California, Maryland
    Age
    39
    Posts
    156

    Default

    kats,
    Thank you very much for posting those pictures! It would be quite a bit of fun to see the car in person to fully appreciate what an undertaking to bring the car back to life.
    Joe Sheelar
    Formerly: 240ztt

    Inventory
    1971 Datsun 240Z (STB) Turbo
    1979 Datsun 810 The Project is Back ON!!
    1997 Nissan XE Extended Cab Pickup
    2002 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4X4

  64. #64
    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4028
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois, United States
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    I don't know if Japanese models had fuel tank vapor collection tanks or not, but the 1969 production US cars didn't (at least mine and 26th-Z's don't), 1/70 production and later cars do. Since the gas tank is there, that might help date it if so.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

  65. #65
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Add to the list of incongruities:
    #8 Hazard Light Switch has the "On-Off" Label Indent. This wasn't seen until late 71-early 72.
    (It apparently ALSO had the very rare and rarely seen Fog Lamp Switch!)
    #9 Illuminated Rear Window Defrost Switch. Again a later item, the early ones did not light up.
    #10 Radio Faceplate seems to be for an 8 Track Player, although only AM Band. Although it could also be a radio without push knobs and therefore no hole in the face plate.
    #11 Radiator Splash Pan. (I may be off on this one.) I was told that these didn't begin to appear until the engine overheating problems arose.

    Ahhh, carcheology....

    Enrique

  66. #66
    Ed
    Ed is offline
    HLS30165540
    Member ID
    CZCC-1052
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Houma, Louisiana
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,297

    Default

    Wow, what a great find!

    Remember a while back someone mentioned that in order to reduce production costs, there were things that were "discontinued" or not used.
    What if, this was one of the "prototypes" with all the bells and whistles like A/C, auto trans, tool boxes, vents, booster, etc...?

    On another note. Look where the horn's should be. Is there a bracket of some kind there?
    The 1973 240Z 165540 Slightly modified. L28, 5sp, cam, headers, MSD 6AL, power windows, power door locks, leather seats, custom this and custom that.

  67. #67
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Reading through all the this didnt belong on this because bla bla bla... Not appeared on model x untill whatever date..... etc.

    When I look at the location of the people writing this, USA, Canada, I guess all your statments are based on knowledge of USA exports models.

    You guys didnt even get a 5 speed untill the 280Z.

    Remeber this is a JDM car.

    Also its a very old car, and who knows who has swapped what out over the years.

    If indeed it was a factory test mule then it makes sence that it would have all the later model mods, like auto. or late model tool boxes.

    Imagine the nissan guys sitting around saying, Hey lets change the tool boxes, the old ones are a bit dodgey. Ok lets design it, press up some metal, go to the test mule and weld it in and see how it looks.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  68. #68
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-7085
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Regina, Canada
    Age
    50
    Posts
    70

    Default

    Quarter panels look good. And noone put a (yech) sunroof in it back in '82 like everyone was doing.
    1971 Tr6, 72 zed, 84 720, 89 Celebrity, 07 Subaru Impreza SE 85 Sandpiper 565 sailboat

  69. #69
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default Greetings Kats!!!!

    I just spent an hour or so with all the pictures - in photoshop. I adjusted brightness and enlarged areas. I would love to see more photos of the tool box / rear deck area, please. Are the tabs for the earlier type of tool box welded in place? I notice the passenger floor is gone from one photo, but a foot rest and seat in another? Is the VIN plate in the engine bay gone? Looks like the car had air-conditioning. The rear-view mirror is not a red-dot.

    This firewall photo bothers me the most. What is the marking around the serial number? The chassis is clearly a later design / type. I don't believe the metal pressings for the shapes in this chassis existed in 1969. If it were a "test mule", there would be evidence of welding from one chassis style to the later. For instance, the side vents in the rear quarter would normally have this cup welded inside. What about S30-00002? Dates on the wiring harnesses will provide more evidence. Long pig-tail fuse box, or short?

    Thanks for sharing all this, Kats.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-hvin.jpg   Save S30-0002-fenderlr-quarter-5.jpg  
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  70. #70
    Battle House!
    Member ID
    CZCC-8711
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Redmond;Washington.
    Age
    25
    Posts
    612

    Default

    ..................wow........................

  71. #71
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Looks like something was stuck over the top of the chassis number, and has left some residue behind. Theres seems to be an ID tag on the driver side strut, you can see it (a grey shaped square) in the 1st photo on page 1. Maybe that holds alot of the answers.

    Also no one said this is a 1969 car. People are just assuming that it is, for whatever reason.

    Like all the people with low vin HS30 do because they read somewhere the figures for HLS30 cars and assumed that theirs must also be of the same vintage.

    I pesonally dont care what year the car was made, I dont care about the, "my cars earlier than yours" bull.... or what the welds look like. Heres an idea, lets get a micrometer and measure the thickness of the metal its made out of.

    Its a Z. the VIN is cool whatever vintage it is, and its not too far gone to be restored. Just a bit dented up.

    I'd just rather see it fixed than crushed, even if it ends up with an RB20DE with tripple webbers.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  72. #72
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage
    ...snip...When I look at the location of the people writing this, USA, Canada, I guess all your statments are based on knowledge of USA exports models.

    You guys didnt even get a 5 speed untill the 280Z.

    Remeber this is a JDM car.

    Also its a very old car, and who knows who has swapped what out over the years.

    If indeed it was a factory test mule then it makes sence that it would have all the later model mods, like auto. or late model tool boxes.

    Imagine the nissan guys sitting around saying, Hey lets change the tool boxes, the old ones are a bit dodgey. Ok lets design it, press up some metal, go to the test mule and weld it in and see how it looks.
    Your reasoning is flawed.

    You presume that because we live in North America that our knowledge is limited EXCLUSIVELY to this market's model availability. As you know many of us have been on this site a while, and have paid attention to Alan T's and Carl Beck's and Kats points on many of these specific points that we are making. Are you saying that we cannot learn, or that we purposely ignore those items.

    Why would they make the molds for stamping out the metal on the rear deck and then revert to the molds without the tool box openings. Have you any idea how much the molds cost to make? The same reasoning applies to the dash.

    The availability of a 5 speed manual transmission was already known as many Roadsters were delivered with it. The automatic transmission being available just not released was also a known item.

    The fact that it is an old car is EXACTLY why the discussion regarding what does and doesn't BELONG on the car based on it's ORIGINAL production is so germaine.

    If indeed it was a factory test mule, it wouldn't have such a low VIN that the features not available till years later would have been on it. As far as the engineers doing modifications on it, why would they bother to hide all their patch-in welds, and further do the bodywork to blend it in such that the welds aren't apparent? Even though it isn't cheap, it still would have been easier and cheaper to scrap this one and have a new one made with the new sheet metal being proposed. Would they have kept the same VIN? If so, to what end?

    I'm thinking that because it is a JDM car, that the owner of the vehicle, and it could have been the engineers, kept adding the "new and improved" items to it. That would explain the addition of items that weren't seen till later model years.

    It is the appearance of those items with such a low VIN that is so incongrous. If you'll recall the thread that sparked your initial posting that is this thread, the discussion centered around subtle differences between what was an "earlier" part and a "later" part.

    Now you pop on and tell us that our "statments are based on knowledge of USA exports models" and therefore not only in error but biased on the basis of not knowing or remembering that it is a JDM car.

    But I'll finish with this: Your post #22 says: "Though i'm sure Kats could advise Mr Harigae on the correct parts for such an early car."
    but if I recall correctly in post #59 Kats posts: "My quick impression of this car is,"very complecated" or how do you say, "doutfu?l".Because so many parts seen in this car are known as "1971 model"...snip...So,generaly speaking,this car could be a 1971 car.But I do not know.
    What a complecated thing is,the VIN punched on the fire wall." So Kats, who resides in Japan, is asking this predominantly North American group, about items that in his eyes are suspicious given the serial number of the car. I believe Kats is one of the more knowledgeable members of this group, why not ask him why he didn't request responses exclusively from outside North America?

    Do a little calisthenics, reach up and over your head with each arm, grab the opposite ear, give a solid yank and get your head out and breathe some fresh air.

    Enrique

  73. #73
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Chris:

    I note the "cup" around the vent, but where is the support metal that goes in front of it? If you look at the pics of 00002 you can see the metal with the embossed "x".

    Enrique

  74. #74
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    ....This firewall photo bothers me the most. What is the marking around the serial number?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage
    ....Looks like something was stuck over the top of the chassis number, and has left some residue behind.
    I have to 'stick up' for the integrity of the marking / paint / sticker around the firewall VIN number stamping:

    This is quite common in Japan, and I have seen it many times. It is merely an aid to locating the positioning of the number, and could have been carried out by a servicing garage before taking the car for a 'Shakken' test, or any number of other official and non-official agencies. I've seen them hand-drawn and I've seen them stencilled. I've seen yellow paint, orangey-yellow stencils and reflective stickers. Even 'Glow-In-The-Dark' paint and Tipp-Ex.

    I don't think there's anything unusual or suspicious about the box around the number........ Lets not lose sight of the rabbit here.

    In my opinion - for what it is worth - the only thing making us believe this car is 'pre-production' / extremely early production is the VIN / serial number itself. The rest of the car looks much later in date than the VIN / serial number would make us imagine it should be. The car even shows evidence of a spot of customisation ( the slat grille - which is an 'Export' market item ) which should serve to remind us that this car's life didn't begin the day we met it..............

    Edit: By way of reference / comparison / light-hearted relief, I am posting the following photo. Taken from the very first Factory Workshop manual for the Japanese market cars, and published in 1969:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-s30-vin-number-location.jpg  
    Last edited by HS30-H; 09-10-2005 at 12:23 PM.

  75. #75
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Craig,

    We're just a bunch of car guys having a nerdy car conversation, that's all. No one is dissing anyone's small VIN. I keep flipping over to the '71 Fairlady thread and comparing pictures.

    Alan, thanks for the explanation. So this is just an anomaly?

    What picture are you talking about, Enrique?
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  76. #76
    Semi-retired admin Arne's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-8596
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    8,460

    Default

    As a Z newbie, I've been following this thread with interest, and yet some amusement as well. The interest because I enjoy learning new things about the family of cars I am getting into. The amusement because this discussion has been much like some of those I've seen (and participated in) regarding my prior restoration projects - a '67 MGB, and an '81 BMW 323i (Euro model not officially offered here in the USA).

    So I have learned some things about early and late S30's from this thread.

    But I have to agree with some of the sentiments expressed above. Interesting as this is to look at, it is really just an intellectual exercise. We will probably never know the whole story of this car. I do hope that it is restored, just because, but whether a particular car is really low numbered or not doesn't mean much in most cases. When I decided I wanted to restore a Z, my only hard and fast criteria was that it would have small bumpers. Series I, series II, early 260 - I really didn't care which. It just had to be suitable for restoration. Turns out the car I settled on is an early '71 series I, just by chance.

    But interesting as all this is, the main point for me is for all of us to learn more about these cars, so that they can be saved for the future.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

  77. #77
    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4028
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois, United States
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne
    But I have to agree with some of the sentiments expressed above. Interesting as this is to look at, it is really just an intellectual exercise. We will probably never know the whole story of this car.
    And some of us enjoy the intellectual exercise. I love to drive my Z. I also enjoy studying it's history, and debating unknown things about Z cars. Who cares if we never learn the whole story of this car. If we don't ask the questions, we definately will never know! As with many things in life, if you don't ask, you don't get. Sometimes you don't get anyway, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    Bottom line: there are lots of other threads to read. All our discussions are Z related. Don't complain.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

  78. #78
    Semi-retired admin Arne's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-8596
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    8,460

    Default

    Don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining. I am enjoying the investigative part of the thread, and will continue to follow it as long as new data is unearthed.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

  79. #79
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Chris: The second picture on post 69, where you're showing the inside of the left rear fender, and hence the cup on the vent. That you can see the cup at all says that the support metal above the strut isn't there. SRL 00002 HAS the support metal, which makes it hard to see the vent cup.

    E

  80. #80
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    Alan, thanks for the explanation. So this is just an anomaly?
    At this point, your guess is as good as mine. I really don't know what we are looking at here, but I don't see anything suspicious about the actual VIN / body serial number stamping on the firewall. It doesn't look to have been altered, transferred from another vehicle ( no sign of it having been welded in in the localised area around it ) or doctored in the photo.........

    Weighing up the 'evidence', I see what appears to be a car about two years younger than its VIN / body serial number. There must be a simple explanation for it, and whatever happened seems to have happened a fair few years ago. So far I'm swaying more towards it being an identity switch ( the VIN number being attached to a later car: either the firewall panel from the early car - or part of it - being attached to a later body ) and most likely for *economic* reasons some time in the past.

    I still can't imagine that it was a number stamping mistake that made it outside the Factory quality control, past the dealer, and past many years of Shakken tests and regular services without being picked up on............

  81. #81
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EScanlon
    ......SRL 00002 HAS the support metal, which makes it hard to see the vent cup.
    E
    Poor S30-00002. Nobody remembers his name

  82. #82
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    I guess nearly being killed last weekend by a driver that ran a red light and slammed into my car has adjusted my attitude towards things a little.

    So you guys can go on talking about how wrong this car is and that its should have bla bla bla, whatever, for hours and hour and hours. If that what does it for you. If you are so interested in the car fly to Japan and investigate it first hand. At least then it wouldnt just guess work based on a couple of photos

    No disrespect to Kats or Alan. Or to 26th Z. Enrique, I thought you were Canadian? Maybe Kats is asking this forum because its a Global forum. Last time I checked the internet was available to the whole world. Perhaps you are the one with you head up you asre. There are members here from all over the world. For you to assume that the questios were asked here purely just to get the opinions of people residing in the USA is just stupid. The most knowlegable Z member here is from the UK.

    So have fun discussing the what if's. I'm going to spend some time in the real world.

    Sayonara, I'm off the garage.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  83. #83
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Enrique,

    The picture of the vent cup in my post is a shot I nabbed off eBay for my collection of sheet metal. When I stripped and dipped 26th, I became fascinated with how the chassis is assembled from sheet metal stampings. Origami comes to mind. Simple shapes take form and forms become the whole. These cars are simply "stapled" together along miles of seams. I can just see the Japanese guys welding up the shapes over wooden bucks and jigs. Then big blocks of the car assembled on a jig. I wish someone had some pictures.

    Thus, I started collecting pictures of the individual metal pieces.

    Pretty nerdy, huh?
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  84. #84
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    Poor S30-00002. Nobody remembers his name
    Et-tú Bruté?

    or

    Touché!



    E

  85. #85
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EScanlon
    Et-tú Bruté?
    "Infamy, infamy! They've all got it in fer me!....."

    Enrique, you've got an acute accent.........

  86. #86
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    "Infamy, infamy! They've all got it in fer me!....."

    Enrique, you've got an acute accent.........



    so hard I'm almost




    "I've seen London, I've seen France, I've seen' Enrique's ' underpants!"

    is more like it.


    HA HA HA HA

    Thanks Alan, I needed that today.

    Enrique

  87. #87
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Underpants doesn't rhyme with France where I come from.

    Cheer up everybody! Carchaeology is supposed to be fun!............

  88. #88
    Registered User EScanlon's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1490
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    ...snip....pictures of the individual metal pieces.

    Pretty nerdy, huh?

    Not at ALL!! Do you realize what a help those pictures would be in a complete restoration that involved disassembly? Wow, THERE's a CD I wouldn't mind paying for.

    E

  89. #89
    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4028
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois, United States
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EScanlon
    Not at ALL!! Do you realize what a help those pictures would be in a complete restoration that involved disassembly? Wow, THERE's a CD I wouldn't mind paying for.

    E
    That's for sure! I haven't worked on my 240Z for a while, but the last time I was doing some welding on her was on the rear dogleg underneath the rocker panel (rocker removed). I was doing my best to figure out what the original panel arrangement looked like, so I could exorsize the rust demon and rebuild the panels in their original configurations. There must be six different panels coming together at the rear dogleg/wheelwell/floorpanel juncture. Kind of tough to figure out from just the fiche! A "panel map" would be a godsend!
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

  90. #90
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    Oh Geeze! This “collection” isn’t anything extravagant. I just nab pictures I see every now and then. Mostly from eBay. I don’t have enough to cut a Cd or anything. Never really thought of it. Remember that conversation we had going a year ago about when a car is “born”? Alan was contending that any specific chassis is “born” when the serial number is stamped on the firewall. Do I have that right, Alan? Anyhow, through those conversations about how the actual chassis / body shell / unibody was constructed, I set up a separate file for pictures of individual sheet metal. I’ll attach some of my better ones:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Save S30-0002-fenderlr-quarter-1.jpg   Save S30-0002-fenderrr-quarter-4.jpg   Save S30-0002-rhinnersill_76410-e8800a.jpg   Save S30-0002-tub-s30_ii-1.jpg  
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  91. #91
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-1316
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    2,495

    Default

    Just a thought but you know how everyone says these cars were made in a strange order. As in never in 1,2,3,4 sequence more like all over the place.

    What if S30-00002 was started in 69 but sat in the production line till 72? Perhaps she was forgotten for a while or put on hold for quality reasons? Being #2 there could have been several quality issues to take care of.

    Then with the popularity of the Z someone probably said hey we have this car sitting around let's finish it and sell it. Doesn't exactly explain the welds but could be an explanation.

    *JUST A THOUGHT*

  92. #92
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-6736
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34

    Default

    I still have S30-00144 and am going to start restoration next year. If anyone wants any pics to comapre any parts to this car (S30-00002) just let me know, I can have them posted in 24 hours.

  93. #93
    bemmerguy714 bemmerguy714's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-8546
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Costa mesa
    Age
    26
    Posts
    374

    Default

    so what happened to this car?

  94. #94
    Banned User
    Member ID
    CZCC-5874
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Quincy, Ca
    Age
    14
    Posts
    768

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bemmerguy714
    so what happened to this car?
    its probably beer cans by now.

  95. #95
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montoya_fan01
    its probably beer cans by now.
    I think that's very unlikely.

  96. #96
    Banned User
    Member ID
    CZCC-5874
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Quincy, Ca
    Age
    14
    Posts
    768

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    I think that's very unlikely.
    I hope you are right, but that car sure looks rough.

  97. #97
    Registered User Curtis 240's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-11572
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Balina, Australia
    Posts
    48

    Default

    I'm amazed this car still exists. I own no#213, And like the rest, agree that this car should either be restored or locked away in shed atleast for restoration. And if you new the true value to this car you wouldn't wreck it or let it go to waste.

    Curtis

  98. #98
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-12042
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Byron Bay Australia 2481
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1

    Default

    could you relocate the engine? i know most likly long gone but still.....

  99. #99
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,818

    Default

    I agree with Alan. If this is what it is and the pictures are from where they appear, this baby will be restored to a very high standard. Certainly it is rough. So?
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  100. #100
    HS130-150591 4/79 zbane's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-11908
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Cashiers, NC
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,671

    Default

    I'll chip in some cash to help with the restoration (she deserves it)...anyone else?
    David
    _____________________________________
    HS130-150591, April, 1979-280zx
    2001 Infiniti I 30

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87