Classic Motorsports "top 10" Japanese Race Cars of all time!

[ron carter]

I heard the May 2006 issue of Classic Motorsports magazine has a
feature story about the "10 Best Japanese Race Cars of All Time."

What's your list?

Maybe if we can get enough support, Classic Motorsports magazine will
be able to get the cars on your list to the Mitty at Road Atlanta in
April.

Moderators I think this would be a great poll and CMM is looking to put this group of cars together at the Mitty!!

My list starts a follows:

1) BRE #46 240Z /BRE #03 240Z
2) BRE #46 510
3) BSR #33 240Z
4) BSR #33 CP Roadster
5) BRE #46 Roadster
6) Shelby Toyota 2000
7) BRE Off Road 240Z
8) BSR 280ZX
9) BRE Off Road 510
10) Scoville Datsun Roadster

[gogriz91]

I would say the 240 and the 510 campaigned by BRE would be at the top of lthe list with Bob Sharp's ride up there too.

What's the good word from Nissan about sending you and some vehicles from the West Coast to the Mitty?

[ron carter]

Sadly, it has been very quiet....I have not gotten any response what so ever from Nissan.

[gogriz91]

Would a strategically placed email barrage to the right person(s) help at all?

I've gotta believe if Nissan knew that CMM was trying to put this together, they'd help out?

[pimp1911]

Would a strategically placed email barrage to the right person(s) help at all?

I've gotta believe if Nissan knew that CMM was trying to put this together, they'd help out?

+1 on this suggestion.

[jmark]

+1 on this suggestion.

+1 Agreed.

[ron carter]

Sign up and let CMM know how you feel!

Here is a link to their forum, and the information regarding the Mitty.


http://www.grmotorsports.com/board/v...ic.php?t=14236

[pimp1911]

Done. Signed up and left my 2 cents. Will turn my 2 cents into 25 dollars if need be. Lol.

[ron carter]

Hey I appreciate this, please be sure to let CMM know what your interested in seeing at the Mitty...DATSUNS!!!

[Mike]

Moderators I think this would be a great poll and CMM is looking to put this group of cars together at the Mitty!!

Hey Ron,

I don't have a problem if you want to post a poll on this topic. But, make sure you have a good list of cars so people can pick from them. I could see this list becoming pretty long. It would be a great poll.

Go ahead and post it on the "Front Page Polls" forum when you have a list ready.

[gogriz91]

I just posted something on that thread that hopefully Ron McDonald will see and respond to. Hell Ron, I'd send you a $100 to defray costs if you were willing to make the trip just to see your cars and meet you and whoever else was willing to make the journey.

[gnosez]

Don't be holding your breath expecting any support form Nissan for the Mitty (or for anything else either). But before I go into more detail on that here's some info on a few of the cars mentioned.

The owner of the 240/280 #33 BSN, the 900hp 280ZXTT, the 300ZX single turbo, and Tom Cruise's SCCA 300ZX Showroom Stock cars will be at the Mitty. He was not intenting on bringing any of these and was instead going to be driving 5 different vintage cars. He may make room for one of them.

The Cruise car won't be ready until early June, the 280ZXTT hasn't been started in years and the 300ZXT is waiting on the custom build crankshaft to be shipped. That leaves the #33 car which was run at The Glen last year and could be taken to the Mitty but not run hard (needs a few days with the BSN original engine builder, along with a set of tires and a suspension tune-up).

There might be another Japanese race car of interest in the owners' collection and I'm trying to find out what it is and in what shape it's in.

Now as to Nissan, a little background. There are three entities involved, Nissan North America Nissan Motorsports, and NISMO. They have different agendas and staffing. Nissan NA and the MS folks I believe have already announced they are supporting a truck race event the same weekend and are not available to help out. NISMO's answer to the question was also negative.

After seeing the promotion of the Mitty in CMM's last month, I contacted the Executive Director of the Z Car Clubs of America with a set of simple questions:

1) Would Nissan (any or all three) provide some support or attend the Mitty?

2) Was there a communication process in place that allows the ZCCA and Nissan to exchange information pertaining to events like these?

3) Would the ZCCA assist in getting the message of the Mitty (and similar events) to others and help to coordinate things?

The answer to all three was, no.

Nissan (NA, MS, and NISMO) have either no interest, couldn't see a reason to do so, or are too caught up in the headquarters' move from LA to Nashville. As to the Z clubs standing in for Nissan and carrying the company banner, that was a local dealer issue.

I got to wondering how many Z owners (1970 to 2005) own other Nissan vehicles and whether that might be point to raise with them in the future. It was Nissan that brought up the issue of ROI (Return on Investment) at the last ZCCA convention when the subject of convention funding was mentioned.
Given the amount of funding they provide, I calculated that Nissan had made at least that much in profit from the 350s, Titans and other Nissan vehicles parked in the hotel lot alone. I also got to re-thinking my choice of two replacement vehicles I will be purchasing this year.

There is no formal means of communication between the ZCCA and Nissan that would cover events such as this. Nissan makes up its' mind and does what is in its' own interest. No schedule of the events Nissan will be doing or not doing is given out (or it seems asked for either). The ZCCA was unaware that Nissan was not going or that there as a Japanese marque weekend for the Mitty. I asked if Nissan would welcome the ZCCA's involvement to help promote the event harder but there was no real interest at all to see what Nissan wanted or didn't want.

The ZCCA is made up of local clubs and has fewer than 10 people who are elected or appointed to the Executive Committee that oversees all ZCCA business. In this manner ZCCA member clubs can decide to promote and/or put on any number of events like say going to the Mitty. Local clubs are the main players in any Z related event.

That said, I was not able to get the ZCCA to see a potential benefit to promoting Zs and other Nissan products at the Mitty nor could I get them to see the benefit to having something like the Mitty coordinated at a higher level than just at the local club level. Not controlled but coordinated through increased communication, website promotions, etc. Even a simple email to clubs in say a 500 mile diameter of the Mitty asking what their plans were, did they need help getting the word out, etc. A "ZCCA" banner to be displayed at the Mitty? A follow-up article to be written with pics to be submitted to CMM? Oh, well......

I hope to be there in my 240 Datsun anyway.

[jmark]

Sad state of affairs. Nissan is worried about the NASCAR Truck event......Funny their newsletter I just got promotes the Z and its heritage.

http://www.nissanusa.com/form/0,,act...03&Creative=19

Click on the Z and follow the links. Ron is that you & your BRE Z in one of the pics?

[HS30-H]

My list starts a follows:

1) BRE #46 240Z /BRE #03 240Z
2) BRE #46 510
3) BSR #33 240Z
4) BSR #33 CP Roadster
5) BRE #46 Roadster
6) Shelby Toyota 2000
7) BRE Off Road 240Z
8) BSR 280ZX
9) BRE Off Road 510
10) Scoville Datsun Roadster

Ron,

Don't take this as a personal dig, but I notice you don't have a single Japanese-prepped / Japanese-driven / 'Works' purpose-built race car in your list.........

Every single car in your list appears to be a car modified from a standard production road car - as opposed to a limited-run homologation special or 'real' ( read: purpose designed ) race car. They also all appear to be cars that raced exclusively in the USA.

OK - so the purpose behind this is to lobby the organisers of the Mitty to include ( invite / sponsor / subsidise? ) some certain cars in their event, and we have to take the thread title with a pinch of salt - yes?

Therefore it would ( surely? ) be a good idea to lobby for cars that actually still exist........, and have a good chance of showing up should they be invited - yes?

But still, it would be nice to see some cars from outside the USA domestic race scene being included in a list with the title "10 Best Japanese Race Cars of All Time."..........

I think that needed to be said.

Good luck all the same.
Alan T.

[jmark]

It would be awesome to see some works 240Z's brought over and demod for everyone.

[gogriz91]

I bought an '05 Pathfinder last summer and just got a customer comment card after 6 motnhs of ownership. I guess I'll add a line or two about their support for their grassroots racing legacy.

[hls30.com]

Nissan will use our free enthusiasm to their advantage because they know our enthusiasm is only augmented, not generated, by their active participation, and they have no intent of paying for something that they can obtain and use for free. In saying this I in no way mean to imply that no one should participate-I hope to be there-though probably not in my own Z(maybe my wife and son will let me use their pre-restoration Roadster).
I would enjoy Nissans participation in the event from the standpoint of providing a couple of historic cars, and someone who knew about them.
A non-sponsored active following does suggest more loyalty than a sponsored(payed) following.
Will
I would love to have the opportunity to see a vintage JDM car-or more than one!

[gogriz91]

It seems like it would be a great venue to pair a BRE 240 with one of their R or S tune 350Z's, 5 generations of racing. If nothing else, they could sell a ton of NISMO labeled crap and probably cover their investemnt.

[Alfadog]

I was going to post what Alan said, except it probably wouldn't be as well written. So I will just re-iterate. I'm not sure whether I should get angry or just laugh at this topic?? It is a kick in the face for real historians.

And by the way, if you wanted to make a poll, just DO IT.

[ron carter]

tell you what Alan and Alpha, you can add to this post. Who would you choose?! I will put together a poll with a mixture of your suggestions and my suggestions..

I will tell you that I am NOT a student of the international Datsun scene so other than Big Sam I dont know who you would want to include.

Feel free to chime in and add something instead of complaining. What I listed was MY list, and are MY choices. Feel free to add yours.

Ron

[gogriz91]

My motto at work is no surprise...just dissapointment. I'm not surprised Nissan isn't going to put any effort into showing the flag at the Mitty, I'm just dissapointed because the decision chain that lead to a no answer from 3 separate sectors of the company would have made a great albeit dark episode of Seinfeld. Remember, Mr K was a pariah in the organization and was sent to America in part to get him out of the home office, no surprise...just dissapointment.

[ron carter]

wow gnosez, you hit the nail on the head....I think it is a budget thing with the upcoming move.

[gnosez]

Ron - one of the speeches made during the election campaign for the ZCCA Exc. Director position talked about moving the ZCCA closer to that of the BMW, Porsche, Miata, and Jaguar clubs. Then and today I seriously doubt anyone (other than me) has taken the time to put together a table listing the various ways in which our clubs operate and how our corporate sponsors support us be it at the local dealership, regional or national level.

Even discounting the differences in earnings and expendable income between Nissan and these other brands, Nissan and/or the ZCCA has a long way to go to even see the field these boys play on. And the amount the ZCCA gets from Nissan wouldn't buy a fully loaded Sentra. That said without Nissan at the conventions, the other vendors (TOYO, Bose, etc.) would have no reason to show up either and their funding would be sorely missed as well.

Given the number of people at Niassn uninterested in what we do I for one have no confidence a champion will emerge. I would love to be wrong on this however. When Mr. K isn't able to come to the conventions I fear that Nissan will drop out as fast as our Zs are......

[ron carter]

gnosez,

I suspect Mr K will make this his last Z convention, and that will all but kill the national convention and severely cripple the ZCCA.

I have had discussions with Chris Wenzel and have warned him that such a situation is a distinct possibility, and that it will effect the 07 convention it FL.

Director position talked about moving the ZCCA closer to that of the BMW, Porsche, Miata, and Jaguar clubs.

Case in point, 2 years ago at the LA Auto show, Porsche rolls out the production based Carrera GT. Their display is an homage to the cars that came before the new models. They have old 912's next to Carrera 4's, a Porsche spider from a museum...a few misc vintage race cars and their finest new cars all mixed together. Here is a company that supports its roots. The POC is one of the finest clubs anywhere with strong ties to racing.

This year at the All Import show in Long Beach, Toyota shows up with a semi full of beautiful rare Toyota's including a 2000 GT. Nissan does nothing. Although in attendance there are more Datsuns than any other marque.

Nissan, feels that they cant or should not support us. They are not Promoting DATSUN, they are promoting NISSAN. They feel that it is not worth the investment to promote their past because they are not selling DATSUNS any more.

It just kills me, a manufacture needs to realize that someone who has purchased a Datsun / Nissan once is likely to do so again. Why do they think it is not necessary to promote their heritage and consumer confidence!?

I purchased a 05 Armada! I cant tow my Datsun race cars with a Toyota! come on!!!

Regardless, I have gone out of my way to help Nissan when they have asked, and they have asked a few times. My car has been in a few Nissan advertisements and on their web site....I would hope that one day soon they would realize that Datsun history is important to the Nissan brand.

[26th-Z]

My dearest Ron and gnosez,

Knock it off with the bad karma. Mr K. will be at the 2007 convention because Chris Wenzel and eight other guys are busting their ass to see that it happens. The Princess and I wouldn't miss it. In addition, Mr. Wenzel is busting his ass to see that championship Nissans and championship drivers attend the convention. He has his own list and it doesn't stop at ten cars. Look for him at the Mitty and Dallas. He's looking for cars to invite. He'll bring his BMWCCA and PCA experience to the table - gladly. Things are changing in the Z world and it's time to start thinking outside the box for ways to present our events. Return-on-investment is what it is all about. "Drive a Datsun - Then Decide".

With all due respect,

Her Majesty the 26th