Spindle pin removal tool survey

[Jeff G 78]

For those who have used a spindle pin removal tool, I have a few questions. First, did the tool work, and if so, how hard was it to get the pin out? Please give tool details as well. What worked well, and what could be improved? Did the tool have a bearing, greased washers, or ??? The reason I ask is that I'm about to make my own removal tool, but I want to build a better mouse trap, so to speak. Rather than using hardware store all-thread, I was considering buying acme thread rod to make the tool. I figure that 3/4" - 6 acme rod will make the tool much more efficient than standard threaded rod. A friend just loaned me a tool he bought online and it worked for him, but he said it was a real pain and the rod twisted under load. With a nice fat acme thread and a thrust bearing, the tool *should* be better and make pin removal a breeze.

I have only done the pin removal the hard way. After heating and beating, I cut the pins off and used a huge shop press to extract the center of the pins from the knuckles. It was a horrible job and rather dangerous. That was all long before anybody came up with the puller tool and I haven't had to remove any since, until now. I have two sets that I need to remove and I want to make it as easy as possible on myself. I like good quality tools that work well and last forever. I will try the tool I borrowed to do one set, but I am not impressed with the design and want to improve it for the future.

So, does the tool NEED to be better, or am I wasting my time? I figure that if I buy 6 feet of acme rod, acme nuts and some pipe, and I can make at least 5 tools and sell them to pay for my materials. The acme thread rod isn't cheap, but at about $25 per tool, I could make it work. I can get the standard threaded rod for only a few bucks, but if acme is the way to go, I want to do it right.

If I do decide to go this route, is there any interest in a ~ $25 removal tool?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I will be happy to pay you that much right now, and even in advance if it would help you get started. I think 25 dollars for a useful tool like that is darn good value for money.

[Jeff G 78]

Thanks Stephen. I am thrashing to get my 260 ready for a 25:25:25 (25 hours, 25 minutes and 25 seconds) race right now, so I will probably order the supplies I need for the tools in mid-October if I decide to go forward with that design.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well if you do, PM me and I can paypal you my 25 dollars to help you along.

[zKars]

jeff
In my experience with doing several extractions, the failures were all related to insufficient connection strength where the tool attaches to the 12mm threads of the spindle pin. I mean you either rip the threads right off, or the threadsert threads in the tool gets pulled apart. Its not a matter of pulling power from the threaded rod.

[Jeff G 78]

Thanks for the input Jim. I will experiment with the design to maximize the connection strength.

[LeonV]

I got a tool which utilizes the standard all-thread. I can say that it works well if you take it slow and add LOTS of heat to the strut casting. I broke my first all-thread from a combination of being too ambitious and slightly vague instructions. Turn the nut a little bit at a time and make sure the pin moves. Again, heat the strut casting like you're trying to melt the thing, I used MAPP gas. Of course, penetrating oil is a prerequisit for this job, but you already know that part!

[Jeff G 78]

Thanks Leon. Do you think an acme thread and bearing would improve the tool, or not?

[LeonV]

It may improve the tool, but that is a qualitative statement. I'm not sure how much of an improvement it will be, and if it's worth the costs. The failure mode of my all-thread was actually at the nut end, the all-thread simply snapped off! The bar itself failed, the threads were just fine. I was actually able to reuse that one after cleaning up the threads a bit. I applied a healthy amount of grease to the tool as well, before use. So, judging by my experience, the only way the acme thread would improve the design is if the threaded rod itself is inherently stronger than the standard all-thread. I don't think I noticed any twisting, that is what the grease is for.

[Jeff G 78]

What size all-thread was your tool? The one my friend bought only has about a 5/8" all-thread. The wall is pretty thin where it is tapped for the M12x1.25. I was thinking 3/4", but it could be even larger.

[LeonV]

What size all-thread was your tool? The one my friend bought only has about a 5/8" all-thread. The wall is pretty thin where it is tapped for the M12x1.25. I was thinking 3/4", but it could be even larger.

Something like that, I'll measure when I'm home. You are correct, the wall is thin where the M12 hole is tapped and that is exactly where failure occurred.

[240ZGL]

I'm in if your doing these. just PM or E-me
steve@p-t-s.com

[Jeff G 78]

Will do Steve. So far, it sounds like there is some room for improvement in the available pullers. If that's the case, I will likely go forward with my idea. I just need to get as much feedback as possible so I can fix all of the weaknesses in the design.

[Mike W]

So I purchased one of these from a forum member before I did these for a third time and it worked like a charm. This was about 9 months ago but I can't recall the name of the person I purchased this from

Apparently the design has changed over time and has gotten a lot beefier. The one I received used 1" all thread with a hole drilled into one end and a helicoil installed that matched the threads of the spindle pins (same as lug nuts as I recall 12 x 1.25 I believe). It also used a flared pipe over the all thread with a bearing on the nut end to keep everything moving correctly.

Mine came out like butter and it worked so well the pins were re-usable.

I can take a few pictures of the tool if anyone wants to see the details. Just let me now and I will post them.

Mike.

[Darrel]

I made a few of the tools. A couple of members here I sold to. Seppy72(?) and Marty Rogen.

The materials I made them with are pretty much off the shelf parts.

metric all-thread 12m x1.25
1 metric nut
2 mag wheel lugnuts with open end 12m x1.25 napa
pipe
thrust bearing

The shank of the lugnut will fit into the thrust bearing, the thrust bearing will ride on the end of the pipe.

I used a few other things like a bronze bushing and washers, but not needed when using the thrust bearing.


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...pintool001.jpg

[Captain Obvious]

The all-thread rod I've seen availably commercially (read "hardware or big box home improvement store") is crap. It's nickel plated low carbon steel and is, well, crap. I'm not surprised that people are snapping it or pulling threads out.

If you want to try some proof of concept stuff, I think I've got some acme threaded rod in the shop. Probably 3/4-8 or 3/4-16. Don't know the composition, but I can guarantee it's a stronger alloy than the all-thread from the H/W store!

About how much would you need?

What are you going to do for an acme nut?

With a nice fat acme thread and a thrust bearing, the tool *should* be better and make pin removal a breeze.

Haha! Yeah... Good luck with that! Must be Pennsylvania salted roads, or something, but I don't care how nice your thrust bearing is... The pins I've removed weren't coming out in one piece.

[LeonV]

The all-thread I snapped was hardened steel. No matter what kind of all-thread is used, the technique must be correct otherwise you'll be cursing another broken tool.

[beandip]

$25.00 you will find is CHEEP the ones I was loaning out were selling on ebay for around
$100.00 . That is for the final design. Remember that to use polly bushings you must either
spread the control arm to allow for the extra length of the polly or cut the bushing down. You
can use the puller to spread the arm . Simply use two nuts and two washers . Insert the all
thread into the control arm and when it comes to the opening add a washer then a nut.
Continue inserting the all thread adding another nut then another washer. continue inserting
threaded shaft into the second half of the control arm. Now run the nuts out so the washers contact the two halves . Now measure the distance between the two halves. Tighten on a
nut and spread the opening 1/8'' ONLY. Now when you release the tension it will spring back
1/16'' . This is enough to allow the polly and all components to go together.

[Captain Obvious]

The all-thread I snapped was hardened steel. No matter what kind of all-thread is used, the technique must be correct otherwise you'll be cursing another broken tool.

Yeah, those spindle pins can truly be a pain.

What I'm saying is that I've got some acme threaded rod if he wants to give it a try, but I can tell you from experience that I've run across some spindles that weren't coming out in one piece using a "puller style" tool no matter what kind of all-thread you used.

Sometimes the forces holding the spindles in are greater than what the threaded ends of the spindles themselves can withstand. If that's the case, the spindle itself will yield before it will budge. BTDT.

[Jeff G 78]

I hear you Captain Obvious! My '78 was stuck so bad that a pneumatic-hydraulic commercial grade shop press was maxed out just to get the center portions out of the knuckles (and my car is 99.9% rust free!). I know that there will be some pins that cannot be removed with any puller, but like C-clamps or coil spring compressors, regular threads are not the thing to use. Acme threads work far better with less wear and better power transmission.

[LeonV]

As I said, the technique must be correct. Lots of penetrating oil, LOTS of heat and turning the nut a bit at a time. Some tapping from the other end and around the casting may help as well. I'm sure there will be some pins that still won't come out, but with patience most pins can be taken out in one piece.

I'm not against the acme thread, it's just not going to be a magic solution. It'll probably just shift the failure mode from the threaded rod to the threads on the spindle pin. Patience, technique, and more patience will still very much be required.

[Jeff G 78]

Not tool design related, but has anybody tried an impact on the nut to get the pin started? I know that the rod will quickly get in the way once the pin is partially out, but I'm wondering if the impact action would help it slide easier.

[beandip]

For those who have used a spindle pin removal tool, I have a few questions. First, did the tool work, and if so, how hard was it to get the pin out? Please give tool details as well. What worked well, and what could be improved? Did the tool have a bearing, greased washers, or ??? The reason I ask is that I'm about to make my own removal tool, but I want to build a better mouse trap, so to speak. Rather than using hardware store all-thread, I was considering buying acme thread rod to make the tool. I figure that 3/4" - 6 acme rod will make the tool much more efficient than standard threaded rod. A friend just loaned me a tool he bought online and it worked for him, but he said it was a real pain and the rod twisted under load. With a nice fat acme thread and a thrust bearing, the tool *should* be better and make pin removal a breeze.

I have only done the pin removal the hard way. After heating and beating, I cut the pins off and used a huge shop press to extract the center of the pins from the knuckles. It was a horrible job and rather dangerous. That was all long before anybody came up with the puller tool and I haven't had to remove any since, until now. I have two sets that I need to remove and I want to make it as easy as possible on myself. I like good quality tools that work well and last forever. I will try the tool I borrowed to do one set, but I am not impressed with the design and want to improve it for the future.

So, does the tool NEED to be better, or am I wasting my time? I figure that if I buy 6 feet of acme rod, acme nuts and some pipe, and I can make at least 5 tools and sell them to pay for my materials. The acme thread rod isn't cheap, but at about $25 per tool, I could make it work. I can get the standard threaded rod for only a few bucks, but if acme is the way to go, I want to do it right.

If I do decide to go this route, is there any interest in a ~ $25 removal tool?

For anyone that is interested in this thread. Greased washers instead of
using a bearing IS A WAIST OF TIME. Also pulling these pins is not always
possible , some are so rusted in place that a 20 ton press cannot remove
them. Out of the 80+ that were pulled with the pullers I had to loan. There
was only two that actually broke. A few just wore out. NOW The allthread
that you find at Home Depot or any of the centers like that , is NOT
HARDENED STEEL, and it will fail in short order. You will find that there is a
great deal of pressure pulling things out and you need to use quality materials
when building one. Find a machine supply store for the all thread and hardened nuts. The last pullers I had was so tuff that it would pull the end off the
pin before the puller would brake. Also use lots of grease on the threads. Plus after the wedge pin is removed use some PB Blaster and let it soak overnight.
the helps.
Gary

[Zed Head]

Not tool design related, but has anybody tried an impact on the nut to get the pin started? I know that the rod will quickly get in the way once the pin is partially out, but I'm wondering if the impact action would help it slide easier.

I took Blue's suggestion on the AtlanticZ site and beat the pin back and forth with a hammer to get it started, using an old mag wheel lug nut (same thread as the pin) on the ends to save the threads (at least that's what was proposed but apparently he actually cut it out with a Sawzall). Squirted PB Blaster in the lock pin hole and around each end and just worked it back and forth. It got looser and looser with each beating (and I do mean "beating"). I did destroy a couple of old lug nuts though, in the process.

After that, I didn't have a puller, so I used a long bolt with the end ground down to a blunt point to save the threads and beat it the rest of the way out.

FWIW, I also found that one big problem with beating the pin out, which the puller doesn't have, is that if it's stuck in the bushing (not the strut housing or knuckle), the rubber of the bushing will pull it back in the hole after you get it moved. If you're replacing the bushing, you can just use a torch and burn the rubber to get it out.

But that's off-topic - The puller holds the pin in place after it moves so you won't have that problem. But people should be aware that the pin can get just as stuck in the inner bushing as in the cast iron housing. At least one of mine was. PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench for all pin surfaces.

[zKars]

John Coffee I believed mentioned that he used a pnuematic hammer, the biggest one he could buy, with a pinpoint tip, to hammer spindle pins out. He claimed great success.

Regarding the use of ACME thread, I would use the finest thread pitch I can find to apply the greatest tension with the least torque. And heat. lots of heat......