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U-joints, CV's and 240Z/280Z bits

This is a discussion on U-joints, CV's and 240Z/280Z bits within the Engine and Drivetrain (240K) forums, part of the Model 240k Skyline category; Hi Guys, has anyone looked into upgrading their rear Uni joints to CV joints? i got a quote of almost ...


  1. #1
    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    Default U-joints, CV's and 240Z/280Z bits

    Hi Guys,

    has anyone looked into upgrading their rear Uni joints to CV joints? i got a quote of almost $2000 to get this done by a workshop, and seeing as there are some american 240Z/280Z quick and easy solutions to this issue, i was wondering if any of these would work for the 240K??

    280Z stub axles into 240Z : http://www.magshooterz.com/280z_stub_axle_swap.htm

    Z31 CV joint upgrade to match 280Z Stub's:
    http://www.magshooterz.com/z31_cv_conversion.htm

    my question is (of course), would the 280Z stubs fit in the 240K arms? and then would the Z31 conversion work for us??

    Just wondering if anyone here has some 240K/240Z/280Z parts handy they can measure and compare, or otherwise i will need to pull my arms out and see (add that to the list of 1 million things i have to measure out ) for myself.

    comments? magic bullet solutions? anyone?
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    oh, and for those Z guys who will see this, please note the K in 240K
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    found this on the net, it is for the Datsun 1600, but it is promising:

    Datsun 1600 Rear End - My Completed Project

    gday,

    just thought i would add some info on how i went about completeing my r200 LSD conversion and rear disk brake setup

    i used standard 1600 swing arms and rear crossmember. the exhaust hole on the crossmember was enlarged to 4" to suit a 3" pipe. all bushes were fitted with new nolathane items

    the stock 1600 drum brakes were removed and the stub axles and flanges removed. This require alot of bashing and swearing.

    rear brakes from a R31 skyline were used, modified mounts, a standard calipers and some DBA gold rotors.

    for the handbrake cable we used 2 r31 skyline right hand cables and made a custom centre cable using 2 standard 1600 adjusters.

    for brake lines we found that VT comodore front brake lines would be perfect with 1 male-male connector for the left hand side hose, where the hose meets the distribution block. i chose to order a braided brake line kit from datsport.com

    for the fit ment of the R200 i made a custom moustache bar using 2 standard 1600 bars, redrilled and welded it together.

    the housing where the nose of the diff is bolted to the crossmember needed to be 'massaged' with a large hammer in order for the diff to fit completely inside the crossmember.

    in order to connect the diff to the wheels, we investigated a number of methods, but found that 280zx rear CV/shafts would be perfect for the application. these would bolt up without any modification or stuffing around. these are not the same length and suit off centred diffs.

    the r200 used was a off centre type from a Z31 300zx. the 280zx CV's fit into this centre without need to be modified or machined. the CV's have a spline on one end and a 6 bolt flange on the other. to get the CV's bolted to the a-arm, 280zx 6 bolt flanges slid straight onto the 1600 stub axle spline. i also used the 280zx stub axle nuts.


    this whole conversion was done basically with no custom parts needed to be made (except the moustache bar, and r31 caliper mounts)

    Total cost?

    crossmember

    - paint $30
    - bushes $120
    - 4" hole for exhaust $100

    Swing arms

    - bushes $80
    - r31 rear calipers $60 pair
    - new DBA gold rotors $250 pair
    - r31 handbrake cables and caliper brackets $40
    - 280zx 6 bolt flanges $40 pair
    - Datsport Braided Brake Lines $225

    Diff

    - R200 Long Nose 3.9 LSD Clutch $1200 Rebuilt
    - 280zx CV Joints $90 pair

    Total = $2155....ouch

    update time :

    we got the car on the ground and rolled it backwards and forwards to check for clearance...

    one side (the short side) was binding up and caused to car to hop up and down on each rotation..

    so....

    i sourced another 280zx short halfshaft/CV from the Z-car shop, and tried that, still a bee's **** too long.

    so...

    i asked around, the cheapest 'custom' axles i can have made are around $250 ea...

    so...

    i decided to be a tight arse ***** and have the shafts shortened on each end by cutting the splines further down the shaft...this should give be a combined gain of around 16mm per shaft...this should be enough to give me full clearance...

    the only dis-advantage of this is that i will loose around 7mm of spline on each centre bearing.... the axles guru ron@Petron Automotive assured me that it should not compromise strength 'much'

    if they break then i have to get custom ones made, so i will try the cheap was first...bloody jew i am

    photos to follow.....
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Other option is to get the axles shortened in the middle and scotch keyed together. Datsqik has done this and run an 11.0 @130 so they're plenty strong.
    Regards,

    Dave
    Last edited by khughes; 04-05-2006 at 10:42 PM.
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    i think i am going to go down the path of a 280Z hub with 280ZXT half shafts or the Z31 Half shafts with the cheaper mods from modernmotorsports:

    http://www.modern-motorsports.com/ca...5ace0c94e6f32e

    or

    http://www.modern-motorsports.com/ca...5ace0c94e6f32e

    i can't afford the billet ones, and worse case if it doesn't fit, i am sure i can sell them to some AUS Z guy

    Is the track width of a Z and a K different? i am sure they probably are
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User zed240au's Avatar
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    have you been able to source some 280zxt shafts was worried where i would find any in australia
    I have a dr 30 skyline r200 im fitting to my zed came with the inner shafts still in the diff and the axles gas axed off been talk with local cv shop and they seem fairly happy that we can use the inner cv and shafts just make get new shaft and find an end off something that fits and will bolt to the stub axles
    at the moment ive pushed that aside so i can concentrate on fitting my new engine but as soon as i have that running ill be working on the cv shafts for the time being i just put std set of axle ends int he diff luv to see some pics of how yours work out

    Mick
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    nope, not yet, i don't think the 280ZXT was brought to Australia, so i may need to get them from the US
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User zed240au's Avatar
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    yeah thats what i thought will try other approach first

    but i read right you have fitted 280zx shafts at the moment just a bees too long

    not that its a big problem getting stuff from usa or canada have had some parts from the lately
    even bought bilstein struts half the aussie price delivered in 4 days brand new

    but also had some stuff take 8 weeks depends

    Mick
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    nope i havn't fitted anything yet, the post that i posted, was some guys using the bits in their dasun 1600's..

    it looks like you Zed guys have it easy! i don't even know if the geometry is similar in the 240K

    you got to love the benefits of competition, a mass market and consumerism in the US don't you!!
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User zed240au's Avatar
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    well must admit it is way easier now with the internet and some of these specialist z shops especially in the states got some nice gear from arizona z car and some coming from modern motorsports
    but still think its fun finding stuff that fits and making it work bit like my nissan V8 install nobody had done that 17 years ago when i started lots of trial and error in that one
    Bloke used to race a pretty sweet 240k down here had triples then went to turbo l28 last time i saw it he was running rb20 turbo with 300hp heard now hes playing with a gtr reckon he still has his 240k was real neat had lots of fun racing him at symons plains when he had the triples
    I rember him getting excited about cv shafts but dont think he ended up fitting them
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    Okay...

    progress so far!!!

    I managed to pick up a set of Aussie Z31 half shafts (4 bolt flanges) and late 260Z stub axles (around AU$400 delivered). They should be delivered some time next week i hope. I will need to recondition the halfshafts, i have the Nissan part numbers for replacement boots, but can't find the part number for the bearing/cage).

    The plan is now to get the Modern motorsports adaptors (or a locally produced set), and shorten the shafts by reversing the bearing cage in the shafts. The 240K and 240Z/260Z track is close enough that it should all fit in (assuming that the stub axles fit, which i think will)

    finally i feel like i am getting somewhere!
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User zed240au's Avatar
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    ok heres a pic i found on hybridz explaining how to reduce length of 300zx shafts will be trying it my self tonight see if it changes anything
    [IMG][http://webhome.look.ca/~nigelw/miscpics/cvpic1.jpg[/IMG]
    Last edited by zed240au; 05-23-2006 at 01:12 AM.
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

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    that was the before shot heres the after had to look a bit at first myself but pretty sure i got it worked out now
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    are you putting new bearings into the Cv's while your doing this? i looked up nissan FAST, and found a part number for the boot kits, but it doesn't show this bearing cage in the diagram... wierd!

    my shafts will need reconditioning, so i assume this means new bearings and boots.
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User zed240au's Avatar
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    no im planing on using the shafts as they are got local cv shop to check them out and he said they in really good shape

    Reversed outer bearing know worries just popped end cap off shaft and undid circlip pulled bearing cage off slipped it back on reversed and put circlip back on shaft end cap tapped home and done
    too easy
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

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    Registered User Noddle's Avatar
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    khughes,

    Did you get you CV joint real axles in ?

    Nigel

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    i sure did!

    i have two issues though that i am still yet to resolve.

    A) the Z31 halfshafts just barely rub on the body of the shock when the rear wheels are fully loaded

    B) The Z31/260Z adaptor that i got has probably a little too much meat on it on the inside.. there is not much clearence between the bolts that hold the CV to the adaptor (if the nuts arn't turned the right way, they foul the arm, and the nut heads are already machined down on the edges)

    I probably should have gone with Stewart Wilkins Z31/260z adaptor, and i still may (i need to get the diff reconditioned as it is noisy, or a KAAZ LSD fitted) if this is the easiest fix.

    I am not 100% sure what i am going to do about the first one yet, i have a set of adjustable shocks out of a DR30 that i hope will fix it (but havn't measured yet)

    pics here:
    http://www.project240k.com/images/di...lbum=12&pos=10
    http://www.project240k.com/images/di...lbum=12&pos=16
    http://www.project240k.com/images/di...lbum=12&pos=15
    Last edited by khughes; 01-08-2007 at 11:33 PM. Reason: added info + pics
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User Noddle's Avatar
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    Looks, good ?,
    where did you get you're Blue rubber (its not rubber, but I can't remember the name of the stuff) bushing from ?,
    my back end fells like it moves when cornering.

    also looking through your gallery a little,
    I see you upgraded the brakes ?, did you use Manga vented disc, with landcrusier calipers ?, this is what I will be upgrading too when I save a little money (cost of living is a bitch).

    Nigel

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    not sure what brand the bushes are for the moustache bar, Stewart Wilkins did them when they built the bar for me. Noltec do a kit for the standard bar though! http://www.noltecsuspension.com/ there are also rear x member bushes that may be useful

    Rear brakes are late model Commodore/Falcon hybrids (with integrated banksia brake) and my fronts are R34 GTT calipers/disks, hooked into a 10" Booster with 1" Master Cylinder. certainly not the cheapest of options.. but i want to be able to stop pretty quickly.
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User akwikz's Avatar
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    I have not been able to look at my 240K yet, it's on the boat, but I am going to assume it is similiar to the GC10. Here is what I found when I made changes to the rear of my '71. The rear stub axles from a Z31 300ZX are interchangeable if you also use the bearings from the Z31. I went with a 5 lug conversion on the '71, but the '84 and '85 cars were also available in 4 lug in the non-turbo. You can then also use the companion flange from the Z31. I personally used CV axles from a 280ZX turbo, but I know you guys did not get those. I do know that the non-turbo Z31 uses the same type of CV axles as the 280ZX, but I'm not sure if they are the exact same length. None of the S30 series Z cars had a stub axles that would work. The shaft size is different so they won't fit into GC10 bearings, and the S30 bearings will not fit into the swing arm on the GC10. The Z31 was the only easy swap I found.

    Brian
    If it's not a Nissan, it's not worth owning.

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    Don't fret over the 280ZXT axles, they are the same part as used in the later 280ZX 2+2 in Oz (same story as the 280Z axles - they were the same as our late 260Z 2+2 axles).

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    here is a densely informative thread on hybridz.org about: Differential / CV / LSD / HP / Torque / R160 / R180 / R200 / R230 / Diff Mount FAQ

    http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=700184

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    this thread may help visualize some things (some drawings of suspension components of a Z car are provided), from zhome.com:

    http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/R200.htm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails U-joints, CV's and 240Z/280Z bits-70resusp.jpg   U-joints, CV's and 240Z/280Z bits-280zreartransverslink.jpg  

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