280z Dual Exhaust?

[mikewags]

I was talking to a buddy at work that restores classic cars about a few ANSA exhaust tips I bought recently, and he brought up the idea of me installing dual headers for the Z.

Basically the header will lead to an exhaust pipe for each 3 chambers, then each pipe will split in direction and lead off to the back of the car. He mentioned I might get 10-15% performance increase.

Has anyone done this or suggest this? It seems like a pretty simple bolt in process installing the headers, but what about all the hoses and stuff ontop of the exhaust manifold?

Any and all suggestions would be great. Thanks!

[Arne]

Search the forums for 'twice pipes'. MSA sells 'em. Clifford used to make 'em too. To do it all the way, you need a 6-into-2 header, or custom work on the dual downpipe.

[m4xwellmurd3r]

you're thinking of twice pipes. MSA makes a 3-2 header and a twice pipe kit, however, you need to modify some parts to make TRUE twice pipes (the MSA kits come with a 2-1 pipe on both ends, so it goes 2-1-2)
I really don't think you'll see a 10-15% increase in performance, BUT they sound REALLY REALLY NICE! I don't know what you mean by "all the hoses and stuff" on top of the exhaust. there's one pipe for the EGR, and msa does make an egr compliant header. other than that it's bolt in.

[mikewags]

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/PEC02

So #1 on this list...

3 into 2 header...(Arne: I don't see any 6 into 2 - but I think you mean 3 into 2 right?)

I have an exhaust guy that can do the rest of the work once the headers installed (installing the pipes/muffler to the back - along with the tips I bought)

You say MSA sells a kit that includes the rest of the exhaust system? I wonder if that would be the best route to go.

[Arne]

Yes, MSA sells the rest of the system, but there have been complaints on how it fits. As I said, search the site for 'twice pipes' to get first hand experiences.

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/PEC09/15-6030

As for the header terminology, MSA is wrong. That's a pet peeve of mine, that dates from my early motorcycling days. There are 6 primaries, exiting into 2 collectors. That's a 6-into-2 header, and it also comes with a Y-pipe to mate to a single exhaust. You could also call it a pair of 3-into-1 headers, but since they share a single head flange that's not really accurate either.

[mikewags]

The twice pipe kit isn't absolutely necessary though right, any muffler shop should be able to fabricate the rest of the exhaust system right?

If there was one pipe that ran to the back of the car from each of the 3-2 header outlets; this is basically the same as it being "twice piped" 1 pipe going into 2 (back of the car) then to the tip.

Basically, what I had in mind was to split the exhaust from the header to the left and right side of the car, then run it back.

I don't see much need for twice-piping it to the back, unless this will provide a huge difference in exhaust flow. The way I see it, splitting it from STOCK (single straight back) to 2 pipes (1 pipe per 3 chambers) with that new header/exhaust will make the biggest difference.

[d240zx2]

I installed a 6 into 2 header, then ran two pipes all the way back, through glasspacks into a stack on the driver's side. Before I replaced the glasspacks about a month ago, the old (35 years) glasspacks provided a sound that I can only describe as delicious. The new ones toned it down considerably, but still give the same general sound. After my next track excursion, the new g-packs should be blown out a bit and sound more like what I really want to hear....

And a muffler shop did everything from the headers back...about $200.

[sblake01]

Basically, what I had in mind was to split the exhaust from the header to the left and right side of the car, then run it back.The main problem you'd have there is the lack of space between the gas tank and the right side of the car. I haven't looked under a 75-76 lately but on a 77-78, you'd have no room on the right side for a tailpipe.

[mikewags]

Good point Stephen, i'll take a look underneath the car in the morning.

I'm not sure how much different the 75 is, to the 77/78.

[Arne]

I missed that part. There's no room for exhaust on the right side of a 240Z, either. So I'm going to assume that to be true for ALL S30s.

[geezer]

Without going to a fuel cell and losing the spare tire well, you are limited to what you can do with the available space. Ground clearance and interference are the major issues. This is why the original twice pipe systems exited on the left side only. This would be true of all years I believe. If you route the intermediate section like this original one coming from the header into a 6 into 2 configuration, I can suggest a few mufflers to duplicate this part of the system. I am using this original as a template. What you can do after this section is up to your personal preference. I have some example pics somewhere I can look for if you want.

[mikewags]

That looks pretty good geezer.

I wonder what it would look like with both twin ANSA tips on it like that.

http://i6.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/08/32/e2af_1.JPG

[sblake01]

That looks pretty good geezer.

I wonder what it would look like with both twin ANSA tips on it like that.Now this is just my opinion but that would look strange like ricey or what's that other term? Bosoku or something like that? Again, JMO.

[mikewags]

Ricey? You mean like a rice-burner honda mod car or something? :)

I'd really like to get them on each side...but like you guys say, there is lacking space for an exhaust pipe on the right backside.

[sblake01]

Seperate with one on each side, Ansas or Monzas would look fine. But stacked together or side by side on the same side of the car would look strange to me. Besides, these are single bank engines. I'm not sure that dual exhaust would be good for anything other than asthetics.

[geezer]

A few modifications are in order if you are using the Ansa tips. Not to say it can't be done or that it would offend too many people here.LOL

I am not a purist by any means but do appreciate those who are and also appreciate well done modifications. I am staying a little closer to an original outward appearance, so will be using a set of NOS stacked megaphones that can be swapped out quickly for the stock twice pipe muffler.
Here are those example pics and one suggestion for a 2 in 2 out muffler that I am planning on using along with my stackable megaphones.

[mikewags]

Wouldn't dual exhaust (6 - 2 header) let the exhaust flow more freely and improve in getting past any backflow?

Basically giving each 3 chambers it's own exhaust rather than all of them tied up into one.

Here are the ANSA tips - they are basically just dual-tipped (as they stem off of the 1 pipe).

http://i13.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/08/32/c805_1.JPG

Inlet: 2 1/4"
Length : 10 1/4"
Chrome Length: 6 1/4"
Outlet: 2 5/8"
Interior Baffels: 1 3/8"

[geezer]

Your 2 1/4" inlets are the limiting factor. In my opinion a dual 2 1/4" system is overkill anyhow. There will not be a backpressure problem. More likely a quench deficiency because of an oversized system. I think it will be fine though, just a tricky installation.

[mikewags]

Quench deficiency?

I don't HAVE to go with this setup, especially if it will pose any problems down the road...

What do you think?

[geezer]

Quench deficiency?

I don't HAVE to go with this setup, especially if it will pose any problems down the road...

What do you think?

Didn't mean to scare you, bad choice of words. What I am trying to convey is the loss of maximum velocity of the exhaust because of an oversized system. There are so many factors and combinations of engine builds that would determine this, so it is a matter of following the lead of what has worked for someone else or blaze a new trail and hope for the best. I don't think I have ever seen dual Ansa tips mounted on both sides of a Z before and it would be interesting to hear them. Might sound pretty sweet. Problem is, routing the pipe to the right side, without any interference.

[Arne]

Here's a NOS Clifford dual system as shown in the picture Ron loaded. Still has the cardboard tubes on the chrome tips. I thought about buying it just because, but decided I didn't want it for my car.

http://medford.craigslist.org/pts/828621130.html

[mikewags]

I appreciate all the advice you guys have given. I will weigh my options, and see what is possible. I originally bought the pair of ANSA tips; just to swap one of them out for the current tip i have; although I started thinking about getting a real dual exhaust setup going, instead of just a tip that gives the "appearance" of dual exhaust.

If I end up just swapping the tip and scrapping the dual idea --- well, it won't be that bad considering what I have on there now should probably GO.

Considering I decide to go dual exhaust, maybe selling these tips and going with one actual dual tip (2xinlets) might be a better idea. I would like to be able to route the exhaust down the right side, but if this is impossible; then having it dual on that one left side would be adequate (i just don't think 4 outlets on the back left side (2x Ansas) would look very good).

Thanks again!

[mikewags]

***UPDATE***

I sold the ANSA tips on ebay after deciding it wasn't going to work. I have my eye on the fluted/stock dual twin-pipe exhaust MSA sells.

Any feedback/reviews on these?

[HotrodPez]

The twice pipes? From what I've heard, the headache of installing them is remedied by the glory of hearing them.

[WingZr0]

***UPDATE***

I sold the ANSA tips on ebay after deciding it wasn't going to work. I have my eye on the fluted/stock dual twin-pipe exhaust MSA sells.

Any feedback/reviews on these?

Flueted?
Which ones are those?

~Z~

[mikewags]

I meant the megaphone ones that geezer posted...

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25275&d=1220837642

[240ZGL]

Those megs were part of the Clifford/Dastun setup and the pipes are 1 3/4". I have a new set of the megs and have duplicated the muffler section and the center section. The fit is perfect if you can find them.

[John Coffey]

Basically the header will lead to an exhaust pipe for each 3 chambers, then each pipe will split in direction and lead off to the back of the car. He mentioned I might get 10-15% performance increase.

Not true and it has been dyno tested. There are a lot of benefits to wave tuning when working with 6 exhaust pulses instead of 3.

[WingZr0]

I meant the megaphone ones that geezer posted...

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25275&d=1220837642

Good French Horn looking things over there!
My WORD :smoke:

I'm flashing back about band class :cool:

~Z~