Dissapointed In My New Exhaust, Twice!! [Archive]

Pennyman

01-25-2006, 07:17 PM

Hey everyone. I put on my header as seen in the thread "Installing Header As We Speak!!" and I took it to a muffler shop to have the rest done.

Well, the pipe hung too low, and the muffler hit the underside of the rear valence, causing an occational buzzing. This did not please me. Not to mention the U-bolt holding the muffler on was defective, causing a huge exhaust leak. I attempted to fix the problems myself, and ended up making it worse.

So I brought it to different shop today. The guy seemed nice at first, but then started to get progressively more aggitated as I told him what I wanted. He even threatened me saying he wouldn't do the work if I kept talking to him. Also seemed like he felt I didn't trust him. Truth is, I don't trust anyone with my Z. He said to leave and come back at 2pm so I could help him allign the muffler, so I left, took a bath and came back at 2. By then it was done, and the muffler was crooked as hell, welded on (usually they clamp them on so you can replace the muffler if need be) and the main tube was just as low as the last one. Not to mention he welded the muffler hanger to the exhaust tip in plain view!!

I didn't want to deal with this meathead any longer, so I signed the check ($163.31) and drove home, parked my Z and tore the system out.

I cut the welds and removed the muffler, and tomorrow I'll do the rest. I'll also cut off the hangers and have my buddy weld them in the right places.

I swear, no one has any idea how to hang a muffler in this town! ARGH!! If you want something done right you have to do it yourself!! :angry:

Arne

01-25-2006, 07:26 PM

Are you going to run of the mill exhaust shops? Because for what you want, you need to go to the shop that all the local hot rodders use. Those type of shops don't mind if you watch, and they depend on word of mouth for their business. They are generally very easy to deal with.

Bubbleguinea

01-25-2006, 07:49 PM

uhh forgive me if im wrong, but what do you mean by crooked? my muffler is at an angle, and i think most Z's that ive seen have angled mufflers :-)

but i agree...my shop wouldnt let me watch inside the shop, i had to stand outside away. they said insurance reasons. right.

01-25-2006, 07:52 PM

I agree with Arne, If you want it done right you have to pay the piper. I took mine to a guy that did custom exhausts for race cars. He also does roll cages. I was 100% satisfied with his work and you can't find him in the phone book, he's a word of mouth guy and very busy. Too bad he's down east of San Diego otherwise I'd tell you to give him a visit.

=Enigma=

01-25-2006, 07:57 PM

I hate to generalize but I have also found many muffler guys to be devoid of any people or business skills whatsoever. Perhaps it's due to the simplistic nature of the task. They get bored and can't bear to hear anyone try to tell them how they want the job done. I know I'd be a grumpy old fart if I had to do their job.

SJGREEN71

01-25-2006, 10:01 PM

Joey,

I took my '71 to Leo's Muffler at 701-15B Kings Row in San Jose (408-275-1126). The place is in a terrible part of town, it's filthy, and there are a few old dogs that have the run of the place - just the quality indicators I look for in a muffler shop. I wanted a resonator installed to quiet the old Z down a bit. Mike, who did the work is a very nice and patient guy. He rummaged through a 50 gallon drum filled with various resonators, pulled one out and said this looks like it should work. He spent maybe two hours working on the car, installing the resonator and replacing a gasket between the header and down pipe that had gone bad. All for about $120, parts included. Well the sucker does hang kind of low, but Mike said he would have to tear the whole thing out and redo the parts that were already there to get it right, so I am living with it the way it is. Anyway, if you are looking for someone who will listen to you, and will let you hang out and watch, Leo's might just fill the bill for you. You might want to wear your old clothes, however, if you plan to sit on any of his furniture.

John Coffey

01-25-2006, 10:06 PM

About $1,000 gets you this kind of a 240Z exhaust:

http://www.betamotorsports.com/images/serviceimages/240ZComplete-2.jpg

jackboxxx

01-25-2006, 11:22 PM

Any Z repair shops up in your area doing work? My last 71Z I had the MSA
6into1 header, and called the local Z shop and asked what shop he used locally, and brought my car there, the guy did a great job, nice and straight under $200 bucks. this time around, I had installed a Nissan motorsports 3 into 2 header, and brought it to the local shop, with a "Y" adaptor I wanted him to use to connect to the exhaust pipe, but it was a bit off, touching the drivers floor area slightly, so he fabricated a new one, angled slightly different, and ran a nice clean new pipe all the way back..i pointed out how low my existing muffler hung too low, and that it would be nice to be able to tuck it up higher, I bought one of his slightly shorter mufflers, with the intake part on the correct side to meet up with the pipe, and he tucked it up like better than stock...this setup cost, about $250, plus $400+ for the nissan header.

the guys in both applications, welded the muffler, to the exhaust. a nice new setup should last you many many years...and not need replacing. those U clamps rust out..and are a pain...if your concerned about having to replace it,
go with a stainless muffler, and or aluminized piping..they usual are backed with a long warranty..
and yep, the usual way aftermarket mufflers are installed is at an angle..or turned..due to limited space in that area.

Mr Camouflage

01-25-2006, 11:54 PM

The guy seemed nice at first, but then started to get progressively more aggitated as I told him what I wanted.

That was your cue to say, "Dont bother, I'll take it somewhere else. Nice not doing business with you."

1 Bravo 6

01-26-2006, 02:30 AM

I had a complete new exhaust fitted and I'm perfectly happy with the result.

As with Arne, The shop is popular with the rodders and classic car enthusiasts.

Rick.
:devious: :devious:

Pennyman

01-26-2006, 08:09 AM

"Dont bother, I'll take it somewhere else. Nice not doing business with you."

Haha!! I was SOOO tempted to do that, but the other part of me wasn't going to give in to this guy's BS or get pushed around by him.

He chucked my OEM muffler hangers, which weren't in bad condition, and replaced them with massive ugly ones that don't work as well. I think it would be funny to go back there and ask him for my OEM hangers back, just to mess with him. He'd probably be like, "What's wrong with the hangers I gave you?" Haha, I can be too juvenille sometimes...

I hate to generalize but I have also found many muffler guys to be devoid of any people or business skills whatsoever. Perhaps it's due to the simplistic nature of the task. They get bored and can't bear to hear anyone try to tell them how they want the job done. I know I'd be a grumpy old fart if I had to do their job.
Yesterday 07:52 PM

Yeah, my neighbor (a former mechanic) said that exhaust shop guys are often just monkeys who can't handle real mechanical work, or have even been fired from mechanic jobs in the past, and that a lot of them do hack jobs.

Luckily my friend has a welder and just spent 9 months at Wyotech, and he's willing to help me get this system to where I'm satisfied. He looked at the welds on my system and said, "If this dude was at Wyotech, he'd have to take the welding course again!"

I'll try to get a picture of the muffler before I cut the other hanger off (from the muffler tip!) to show you guys...

DatsunZsRule

01-26-2006, 05:37 PM

DAMN, so sorry to hear about your terrible experience with the exhaust. Just goes to show that you cannot trust ANYONE to touch a Classic Z. True that some places are exceptions for example a place that specializes in hot rods like mentioned earlier.

At the Z Site I used to go to before here, there was a guy I talked to that had a early 240Z in awesome shape. He went to have new tires put on and the dumbsh!ts didn't position the hoist in the correct spots and put a large, ugly dent in his passenger floor pan :hurt: :cry: So as irritating as it is, remember that things could be worse :) I'm sure you and your friend will get it back into shape.

kenz240z

01-26-2006, 06:19 PM

I had a MSA 6-2 header and turbo exhaust system installed by a local Z shop. These guys restore Datsuns & build race cars, they know what they are doing. The installation turned out great.

A good exhaust shop can be hard to find. I've had problems with bad exhaust installations on other vehicles, not enough clearance between the bottom of the vehicle & the muffler, so that you get a nice rattle inside the car...annoying!

PrOxLaMuS©

01-26-2006, 07:29 PM

Ed that underbelly is amazing..

SOO clean.. ohh pretty

boostedz

01-26-2006, 09:11 PM

Pennyman

01-26-2006, 10:05 PM

Any Ideas how to fabricate muffler hangers? I guess I could use the metal rod type and weld them where I need them.

My plan is to allign the muffler EXACTLY where I want it, then try and get the tube to work. If it does, great. If not, I'll get one more tube bent (at yet another shop) and I'll be sure to tell them NOT to move the muffler.

I don't suppose it's too much to ask to tell a shop to bend a muffler between an already hung muffler and the catalytic converter? I mean, how could they screw that one up?? hahaha!

cremmenga

01-27-2006, 12:40 PM

I'm anal about my cars also!! Anytime I have to go get a tire fix, exhaust done, anything if they dont let me stand there and watch there every move I take it someplace else!!! I had the same prob. getting exhaust put on my 1967 firebird, nobody wanted me around when they were doing the work. I understand it might make them nervous but this is my baby and noone is going to mess with it or take it out on a "test drive" when they are done!! My friend had is 2000 ss camaro, and my cousin had his 2001 trans am WS6 both at the same shop at the same time for minor repairs and I cought the shop guys on the out skirts of town with both cars racing them!!! Needless to say everything was repaired for free!! LOL and cousin chewed ass for a week!!!! So be carefull!!!

DatsunZsRule

01-27-2006, 06:12 PM

Pennyman, hope all goes well at the next shop :) With your friends welding skills, you shouldn't have any issues fabricating hangers ;-) I look forward to seeing pictures once you get your exhaust system complete.

"I'm anal about my cars also!!"

We all are man :) We wouldn't love our cars if we weren't :) I don't have to worry about watching someone as I do all my own work ;-) As for tires- Do like I do and what I told the poor guy with the 240Z to do next time. Put the Z on jack stands in YOUR garage, remove the wheels yourself, load them up in your daily driver and take them to the tire shop and drop them off since they have the expensive equipment to properly mount them and balance them and dispose your old tires. Then when they get done working on the tires only, pick them up and bring them back and install them on your Z :D

boostedz

01-27-2006, 10:01 PM

Instead of getting tubing bent unless it is mandrel bent you will be ending up with a small exhaust then what you want.

For instance, if you wanted to go with say a 2.25 inch exhaust, at the bends it would be 1.87 inches, using a press bend type machine.

That will be your bottleneck always unless you go with mandrel bends. You can buy them here at www.performancepeddler.com. He is very cheap on prices and doesnt charge for shipping via UPS ground.

Good to deal with and very personable.

KDMatt

01-28-2006, 09:03 PM

Hrm... it's funny I've had just the opposite experience with a shop... Tires Plus nonetheless! ... All of the gearheads there seemed to hold my car in some kind of ethereal awe... Hell, the manager even came down to take a look at her and tell me what great shape she was in and how much potential he saw... "Yeah man, this could be totally cherry, wouldn't take that much work."

They even let me get up under the car while it was on the lift (this let me check for rust underneath and leaks... and... yes... I found both, but, 'can't expect perfection for a car pushing thirty, she's having her mid-life-crisis I think), and I was able to stand on a platform in the garage and watch them work until until they lowered it back down to the ground.

I'd take my car there more often if they didn't charge so much... (I had a coupon that day...)

So yeah, I trust Tires Plus... and there's this other place I've been meaning to try out that always has loads of old collectibles through it (walking up to it, there was an old Chevelle in the parking lot, and I saw a 70's 'vette on a lift inside).

=Enigma=

01-28-2006, 09:53 PM

About $1,000 gets you this kind of a 240Z exhaust:

http://www.betamotorsports.com/images/serviceimages/240ZComplete-2.jpg

Seems a bit pricey if you ask me. I'd expect a header to come with it for that price.

ron carter

01-28-2006, 11:28 PM

Wholesale Tube Bending in Vista CA did an unbelieveable, top quailty job on both my Roadster and my Z...And the Z was NOT easy to do. Very reasonable too, and they let me work with the fabricator to get it just the way I wanted it done on both cars.

I cant say enough good things about these guys.

John Coffey

01-29-2006, 09:27 AM

Seems a bit pricey if you ask me. I'd expect a header to come with it for that price.

The Nissan Comp header for that car was an additional $600. For the vast majority of Z owners the price is stupid. For the few Vintage racing, ITS, and HybridZ guys I've built exhausts for, the price is cheap (well, maybe not "cheap.")

jackboxxx

01-29-2006, 09:54 AM

The Nissan Comp header for that car was an additional $600. For the vast majority of Z owners the price is stupid. For the few Vintage racing, ITS, and HybridZ guys I've built exhausts for, the price is cheap (well, maybe not "cheap.")

LOL yea not cheap but worth every penny...I think I paid somewhere close to
$480+tax for mine and drove to gardena to get it from the warehouse.
(1-5/8ths, chrome)

is betamotorsports your shop John? Sounds like yours is close to mine in Whittier

71ZZZZZ

01-29-2006, 10:20 AM

One thing to watch for when upgrading your pipes is the clearance with the tranny tunnel...."Mongo" (not his real name) who did the first job on my exhaust routed the pipe too close...major heat buildup on the sheet metal on the trans-tunnel and in the cab....it's really important to watch what's being done..if the shop won't let you in on the fabrication, not necessarily under the lift, move on..."Mongo" was a d**k in retrospect, started getting antsy when I started asking him questions...charged me for new pipe hangers and ultimately used either what was already there or scrap off the floor...(Celebrity Mufflers in Silverlake :angry: ), I ultimately had to pay for someone else to rework the pipe routing in front/under the bell housing..

Pennyman

01-29-2006, 10:53 AM

started getting antsy when I started asking him questions...charged me for new pipe hangers and ultimately used either what was already there or scrap off the floor...

SO TRUE!! It's like the guy thinks you don't trust him, and then when you let him do his thing, the job he turns out is worse than something you could have put together in your own garage!

While I was telling this meathead what I wanted, he interupted me and said, "my time is worth 2 bucks a minute, so if you want to stand here and talk to me about everything while we piss time away, you can go somewhere else."

And I was thinking: I don't want to get pushed around by this guy, maybe he feels like I don't trust his quality of work. So I let him be, and it turns out, his work was unsatisfactory, and I should have taken it somewhere else.

71ZZZZZ

01-29-2006, 10:58 AM

And I was thinking: I don't want to get pushed around by this guy, maybe he feels like I don't trust his quality of work. So I let him be, and it turns out, his work was unsatisfactory, and I should have taken it somewhere else.

"Trust you feelings young Skywalker"...even if you have to pay a little bit more, it's worth it, I just about paid 1 and 1/2 for my exhaust upgrade...it's ultimately not as pretty as some of you guys have but it sounds/works really well: stock headers into 2.5" pipe, resonator, into a DynoMax Super Turbo muffler...nice and rumbly at low RPMs, I can trigger car alarms in parking garages but smooths out nicely so I can have a conversation with myself at freeway normal speeds...

:beard:

zhead240

01-29-2006, 11:16 AM

[, I can trigger car alarms in parking garages but smooths out nicely so I can have a conversation with myself at freeway normal speeds...

:beard:[/QUOTE]
talk to yourself??? as long as you don't have sex with yourself.ROFL LOL

71ZZZZZ

01-29-2006, 11:29 AM

[, I can trigger car alarms in parking garages but smooths out nicely so I can have a conversation with myself at freeway normal speeds...

:beard:
talk to yourself??? as long as you don't have sex with yourself.ROFL LOL[/QUOTE]

It IS a manual transmission...

1 Bravo 6

01-30-2006, 02:31 AM

Joe,

You beat me to it mate, however, you have to admit that if he gets into an argument, he's bound to win. ROFL

Rick.
:devious: :devious:

John Coffey

01-30-2006, 08:25 AM

is betamotorsports your shop John? Sounds like yours is close to mine in Whittier

Yup, I'm in La Habra.

jmortensen

01-30-2006, 09:07 AM

I did my own 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust on my Z (with turbo motor) for about 120 dollars. Used a freinds mig and went at it.

If you have a recipricating saw, a welder, the ability to see what you want which apparently you do, and the patience to put it together, then just do it yourself the right way the first time and be done with it.
I did the same. I bought 2.5" mandrel bends from JC Whitney and a section of straight pipe from the local exhaust place, along with some generic strap type hangers that we attached to the stock Z brackets that hang down from the frame rails. Super Turbo muffler was JC Whitney as well, I think it was ~$26. The crappy MSA 6-1 header was the worst part, if I had to do it again I'd shell out for the Nissan Comp header for sure. Took me and a buddy about 4 hours messing around with it in the front yard with his mig and it was all done. I have the tightest tucked exhaust I have yet to see on a 240Z. Only problem was it was a little sprung. We made the pipe in between the 2 90's a little too short. The muffler needs replacing 8 years later so I'll fix that issue when I install the new muffler. I think my total cost including the header and shipping was under $400. Not as light and perfect as John's stainless exhaust I'm sure.

John Coffey

01-30-2006, 09:36 AM

Not as light and perfect as John's stainless exhaust I'm sure.

The pictured exhaust is not stainless. Thin wall mild steel, which is lighter then the same wall thickness stainless. The only thing lighter would be .035 wall stainless and mandrel bends in that thickness get very expensive. Most racers don't need the added expense of stainless especially here in California.

What makes the exhaust expensive is:

1. Completely TIG welded (no weld material inside the tubing).
2. All welded joints smooth on the inside and lined up properly (no diameter reductions).
3. Custom made merge collector "Y" pipe with the inside honed out and smoothed.
4. O2 sensor bung added.
5. Complete 3" mandrel bent from "Y" pipe to tip.
6. Borla XR-1 Raceline muffler.
7. Optional straight pipe.
8. Extra thick CNC machined 3 bolt flanges.
9. Stainless t-bolt clamps.
10. Exhaust fits: not dragging, no banging, no rubbing, clears driver's footwell, clears T5, clears custom rear mounted ARB, clears forward mounted fuel cell.
11. Can be completely removed in 2 minutes for trans and diff swaps.
12. Can have an additional muffler added to meet Laguna Seca sound limits.

All of the above takes time and that's what increases the cost.

Pennyman

01-30-2006, 10:11 AM

12. Can have an additional muffler added to meet Laguna Seca sound limits.

I can just picture the exhaust shop guy saying, "Add $250 if you plan on running at Laguna Seca, and we'll include a muffler."

I'll post pics of the new hangers once their welded on.

Here's the ugly hanger the guy welded on last time. Notice how visible and...ugly it would be... I had to cut it off.

jackboxxx

01-30-2006, 09:23 PM

I can just picture the exhaust shop guy saying, "Add $250 if you plan on running at Laguna Seca, and we'll include a muffler."

I'll post pics of the new hangers once their welded on.

Here's the ugly hanger the guy welded on last time. Notice how visible and...ugly it would be... I had to cut it off.

That is pretty damm nasty...

jmark

09-11-2006, 07:07 AM

LOL yea not cheap but worth every penny...I think I paid somewhere close to
$480+tax for mine and drove to gardena to get it from the warehouse.
(1-5/8ths, chrome)

is betamotorsports your shop John? Sounds like yours is close to mine in WhittierDoes the chrome Nismo Header hold up as well as a jet coated one?

Montezuma

09-11-2006, 12:48 PM

I have all my exhaust work done by Ed Hanson in La Mesa(San Diego County) CA. Ed is a very approachable guy with a great attitude. He has numerous photos of street rod jobs that he has done over the years. I had my 78Z's system done over 10 years ago and it is still working great. I had his shop do the work on my 73 and it did not go right at first(they had a rookie work on it), he had the downpipe hanging too low which caused a manifold stud to break, so I took it back in to have a resonator added since it was so loud without one and they fixed the exhaust leak. All and all I still very happy with Ed Hanson's shop. I am sure the place that Ron mentioned up in Vista is great too. I agree with Arne, guys who do custom jobs for street rods and what not tend to be much better place to get a nice system down for your Z.

ron carter

09-11-2006, 01:06 PM

Thanks Montezuma...it is important to find a guy that you can trust that will do the job you want. Not only the skill, but the skill and understanding to know what you need. It is hard to find, but once you do you won't be dissapointed.

Talk to the people who are going to do your work, make sure that they understand what you are looking for and don't be afraid to pay for a good job. The guy that does it is worth it.

Good luck.

rewiredz

09-24-2006, 01:10 PM

i spent around $180 and bought a monza exhaust system. i installed it myself and i got it to fit just the way i wanted it to. the whole thing took about a half hour to do and nothing rattles. i was able to use the factory hangers to mount the entire thing so that made it fairly easy to do.

62vette

01-03-2007, 11:15 AM

MAX

01-04-2007, 09:03 PM

I put the MSA Three Into Two Header on my car and it worked out fine. I got the one without the smog fittings.

However, I didn't have such good success with the MSATurbo Exhaust System. The way the pipes lined up I couldn't get the Muffler to fit in straight so I scrapped the pipes and had custom ones made to my specifications. I was lucky to find a craftsman at a local Midas Store who was good at his craft and was willing to work with me.

I ended up using the muffler from the above kit and I did get it to fit flat and straight in the small space.

Here is a picture of what my exhaust system looks like...(Well, I was going to add a picture but for some reason the system wouldn't allow me to do it)

Before mounting it I painted the whole thing with high temp paint.

The extra pipes and the labor at Midas was less than $200.

jmark

02-07-2007, 11:39 AM

I did the same. I bought 2.5" mandrel bends from JC Whitney and a section of straight pipe from the local exhaust place, along with some generic strap type hangers that we attached to the stock Z brackets that hang down from the frame rails. Super Turbo muffler was JC Whitney as well, I think it was ~$26. The crappy MSA 6-1 header was the worst part, if I had to do it again I'd shell out for the Nissan Comp header for sure. Took me and a buddy about 4 hours messing around with it in the front yard with his mig and it was all done. I have the tightest tucked exhaust I have yet to see on a 240Z. Only problem was it was a little sprung. We made the pipe in between the 2 90's a little too short. The muffler needs replacing 8 years later so I'll fix that issue when I install the new muffler. I think my total cost including the header and shipping was under $400. Not as light and perfect as John's stainless exhaust I'm sure.Jon, Is the Nissan comp header you are referring to the 1 5/8" chromed header?

Bulldog Z

05-21-2007, 09:12 PM

I have a header and 2.5 pipe going back to a turbo muffler and it souds great. I had Midas install the system and they did a great job. They let me watch and everything. I was glad I trusted the Midas touch!!! The installer used to have a 240 like mine back in the day. He has been in the muffler biz for about thirty plus years. They welded my muffler to the pipe as well. No stupid U joints to rust out.