240K Handling

[khughes]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if any of you have done any suspension work to your cars to help them handle better on the road/track.

I have some real concerns that after i do my RB25/30 swap, the front is going to be a lot heavier and understeer a lot more (that is... if the car ever gets traction)

So far i have the following (suspension wise)
Front:

height adjustable shocks (C210 i believe)
Whiteline BDF33 swaybar
Whiteline SPF1224K bushesRear:

Munroe GT shocks
Whiteline BDR5 swaybarDepending on what size rims that i get (hopefully 15/16" watanabe if i EVER find some), i will lower the car accordingly.

The swaybars go on over christmas, i will make sure i get some install pictures as i go and post on here :)

I am also looking at slotting the rear suspension member to allow for adjustment (as previously mentioned on here), is there any point getting a set of front adjustable camber tops made up for the car? are they expensive to make/fit?

anyone else done any handling mods? i have to confess i am certainly no handling expert, and it seems to get one to work on your car involves a lot of testing and $$$$. do any of the 1600 suspension principals carry over (since they ae similar setups)?

[Alfadog]

All I have is new King Springs and Munroe shocks all round. Handles very nicely (better than you'd expect), but yes, understeer is the main problem. My advice is get as wide front wheels as you can, and I'd definitely try for some neg camber there too. But yeah I'm no expert either.

Do you know the weight or the RB engine compared with the L24? You might be surprised. Plus if you push the engine down as low and far back as possible you might end up with a better weight distribution.

[khughes]

the RB block is certainly no bigger dimension wise, but with the extra weight of the turbo, manifolds etc.. i could imagine it would be atleast an extra 50+ KG

that isn't even counting the intercooler, piping, intake etc. either..

luckily i am redirecting the battery to the back, and the R32 radiator i am going to try and use is a lot lighter and thinner than the stocker. so i should be saving a little weight there..

still looking for a set of rims, i havn't had any luck finding a suitable pair in the past year.. i am going to go as wide as i can.. i don't really want to fork out for some konig wheels though :(

[The C110]

Hey Kent + Lach,

I too was interested in 240k handling because as you both know in stock form...well the 'k handles like a pig... Terrible bias towards understeer and its only if youre giving the car a good kick in the guts - ie going in hot and stepping on the power EARLY that the tail swings out, albeit snappier than an catholic school headmaster. When i replace my tyres in the next month or so, ill grab a pic of the uneven wear on the fronts due to the nose pushing in.

Ive had a chat to a few different people regarding rb weight, and most say the l-series blocks are boat anchors in comparison - Kent you may be pleasantly surprised. In any case, i would highly reccomend some negative camber at the front. Combined with your strut brace and (i assume) nolatane bushes it will be a winning package. If possible, a conversion to rack and pinion steering will sharpen up the whole package and give you a much more sporty feel. Regards,

Tom

[khughes]

thanks tom,

i will look into the neg camber and the rack and pinion steering. The car has been converted to power steering by the previous owner, i think it is from an R30 skyline (or it could have been C210, i am not quite sure).

the SPF1224K is nolathane inner control arm inner bushes, and the swaybar comes with nolethane bushes too..

the rear bar looks interesting, it is not a replacement (obviously) and needs to be bolted on (which is going to be intereting given it didn't come with instructions!)

pics will follow ;)

[sakijo]

[QUOTE=khughes] I am also looking at slotting the rear suspension member to allow for adjustment (as previously mentioned on here), is there any point getting a set of front adjustable camber tops made up for the car? are they expensive to make/fit?[QUOTE]

I am going to get my suspension worked on early next year. The car guy says ball joints, shocks, struts, tie rod ends, tension rods and camber top plates. Right now, the car only has an adjustment for the toe-in/toe-out. The strut rods will give caster djustment and the camber tops will give camber adjustments. He also said what Tom said - a bit of negative camber will make the car handle a lot better. Tha camber top plates that I've seen on auction were running about $200.00 US - although they were for Zs and 510s. They might work on the 240K; or the Hakosuka ones. I'd bet they make them here for C110s.

[khughes]

Hi Miles,

you are so lucky to be over there :)

make sure you let us know how you get on, i am sure we would be very interested in how it goes..

would also love it if you could find out some more on any top plates they make in japan, if you find a place that sells them, would you possibly consider shipping a set over to me? (i can pay via paypal). In Australia, Whiteline make a generic top plate kit, but i think they are around the AU$400+ mark, again i am not sure if they would really fit properly, i would prefer a set made with the c110 in mind

[John Coffey]

Having put RBs, SRs, and L6s in 240Zs I can tell you a fully dressed RB26 is about 150 lbs (with turbos, plumbing, intercooler, etc.) heavier then a fully dressed SU carb'd L6 and about 225 lbs heavier then a fully dressed SR20DET.

[240kman]

Hey guys, this subject is right up my alley, A 24OK fanatic that runs a suspension and steering shop. First thing to clear up is the difference between urethane and nolathane. The "spf" part numbers are super pro urethane bushes, and in my professional opinion are the only way to go when applying urethane.

I had my castor bars machined with extended thread tp make them adjustable, this gave me abt 3 or 4 deg, before the wheels hit on the guards, Adjustable strut tops will give you more castor as well as more camber. Noltec in Australia make the only descent strut top that I have found, they have good adjustment and come in solid plate form.

I recommend abt 5 deg positive castor if you an get it. 1 deg neg camber is good comprimise between handleing and tyre wear. A couple of mm toe in for the road.

The whitline bar on the front is great, I have one on mine, I havn't tried the rear bar on a K , although my R30 has one std, it handles good. I wouln't go to strong on the rear bar though, it can mess up the whole independent idea. A rear bar will loosen the back up, so be carefull.

I run King springs all round, though the front wasn't low enough so I cut a bit off ( I didn't say that) this is not recommended by Kings. They did become untrapped. The rear springs are a bit heavier than normal, out of our old speedway 240k, I'd have to check their rate.

If you wan't a really good shock Koni are the go, but are twice the price of Monroe or Kyb. monroe and kyb are good for the money.

If you need any help finding these parts or want any advice, I'm keen to help any 240k enthuisiast.

[khughes]

Hi 240Kman,

brilliant! great to hear from you, and with such good advice!

is there any other urethene bushes etc, i should/can get.. i have most of the ones i have been able to find on the whiteline website, but would be keen to find out any others, as i am sure most of the rubbers are due for a replacement.

what do the noltec strut tops go for? can you organise us a good deal :)

my front shocks are some form of height adjustable (they may be koni) units, apparently from a C210 skyline, the whole subframe was on teh car when i bought it, and it gave the car crazy camber. i had to change back to a c110 to make it look straight.. it is just a rolling shell at them moment, so it makes it difficult to get the car anywhere, i am trying to do as much as i can during the build.

i intend to get some wide tyres on the car as well, as i will have GTR guards to fill out

thanks for the advice on the rear bar, if it is a little tail happy, atleast i know why! (well apart from the 300kw it should eventually run)

[khughes]

Hi Guys,

i installed the front swaybar on the car on the weekend, all went pretty well, except i had to trim the sides from the rubber that fits into the stabilizer mount. I will get some pictures up very soon.

My have a question though, the SPF1224K bushes are meant to be for the front lower control arms.. i can't for the life of me see any similar bushes anywhere on the front suspension!! am i blind (probably)!

[g72s20]

Hold up Kent, I've got the parts book here, so I'll scan the page for you to take a look.

[khughes]

fantastic, thanks jim, it would be much appreciated

[g72s20]

Have a look at the bits numbered "11" is that them?

[khughes]

yep, there the ones!

thanks jim!

[khughes]

would you also be able to scan me in the page of the rear assembly too?

[g72s20]

Comin' up:)

[khughes]

thanks Jim!
is there a page to show how the rear hub is put in?

i love that book, it has all the answers!

[g72s20]

Only this, what about the workshop manual?

[khughes]

thats great thanks!

[g72s20]

No worries! if you decide you need 'em larger let me know(remember these are limited to 1251x1025 or 1Meg) the original scans are 550~650Kb and much bigger....easier to read. You know where to get them.
Cheers,
Jim.

[khughes]

Hi Jim,

a bit off topic, but i don't suppose that your manual (or brilliant archives of documentation) would happen to have paint codes in it would it? i am looking for the code of the original KPGC110 red
Kent

[Alfadog]

Since the GC110 could be ordered in red in any model, perhaps the code is the same? I wonder if Nissan could help out in that case...

[kyteler]

Red is number 163 or part number "PAINT-DN163"

[Alfadog]

Is that GT-R red or standard red, or both? Do you have colour chips or where did that info come from?

[g72s20]

Hi guys,
Remember this is from the export model parts manual. Matches up with what Kyteler says.
I had a dig through a 1975 Japanese C110 parts CD, includes the KPGC110 but no paint info I could identify :( Tried the sales brochure too....still couldn't see anything to do with paint identity.
There are a lot of pictures around of genuine KPGC110's in red. I see KYOSHO is releasing 1/18 scale versions in red, silver or white, and if their previous efforts with Nissans is anything to go by they should be quite accurate with colour matching, so maybe one of these in red could be a reasonable reference?
Jim.

[Alfadog]

OK, I can now confirm 163 is the correct colour code for the GT-R red. The GT-Rs didn't get unique colours, just restricted, according to this information I found. Attached is a picture (poor quality, sorry, my good camera has run out of batteries) from a reproduction of the KPGC110 service manual (thanks to Alan Thomas). I added some clearer text of the actual numbers for readability!

Cross referencing with the scan Jim posted (thanks Jim!) we can see that 258 is silver and 024 is white. So there we go!

[kyteler]

And so the happy C110 family celebrates another win! :D

[khughes]

thanks guys, as always you are all incredibly knowledgeable!