WooHooo! 4.11 R200 Torsen unit!

[shock96]

Scored the sweetest piece of eq the other day!

It is an R200 in 4.11 ratio. Now, that in itself is no big deal right?

Well this sucker is equipped with a Torsen limited slip unit!!

For those of you who do not know what a Torsen LSD unit is, it is a torque sensing limited slip. The standard Nissan LSD is a clutch type unit (viscous units are available as well but need more mods to fit the early Z)

The clutch type units have approx 45lbs of breakaway torque. Not bad, but easily overwhelmed by a strong engine.

The Torsen unit (as well as the Quaife) use invex gears (not clutches) to send torque back and forth across the axle as needed. It never requires a rebuild and never wears out, so you can expect the same performance year after year.

For example, in a straight line, 100% of torque is split evenly across both tires. When cornering, it sends torque to the wheel with the most traction (the outside wheel). It will split the torque as needed while you are driving. If the outside wheel begins to slip, the diff will reduce torque to that wheel and send it inside.

So you can see the advantages of this type of diff. Most clutch units are free wheeling in corners with power on. Not this unit!

It does take some getting used to as it forces you to be smoother in the corners and hold more power that you would be used to, but I have been told that they can give you a 1-3 second advantage over clutch or welded rear ends.

I will be running this rear end at my first event in May. I hope to have it all sorted before then and I will give a first had report.

Mike

BTW: I paid $250 for it. An absolute steal. A new Quaife unit sells for $1195 just for the LSD unit. Add installation and axle and you are in the $1800 range! I was ready to buy the Quaife unit until this came along. The Torsen/Gleason unit is a larger stronger unit than the Quaife, which is why it will not fit the R180, only the R200. These were used in the Bob Sharp/Electromotive cars, otherwise they are the same.

[ron carter]

I just picked up a nissan competition rally transmission, fire system and ajustable front and rear swaybars, all for $300.00. life is good!..he has a torson gleason R-200 4.11 but doesn't want to sell it.....

[shock96]

Excellent score! Keep on him about the Torsen unit. It is a sweeeeet deal for any Z. The guy at first didn't want to sell either, but I kept at him about it.

Mike

[ron carter]

i will mike, it's a very rare part...i have been told that there are only 6 torson gleasons in existence. All out of the neuman haas racing effort. Torson won't even admitt that they exist...or so i have heard...you scored my friend!

[shock96]

I believe that there are more than 6. I know of at least 2 others and now yours (think positive) is 3.

The makers of the Torsen unit these days are not the same guys as the Gleason company that originally built the unit afaIk.

Mike

[2ManyZs]

I don't know how many Gleason units there are out there, but I too have a 4:11 R-200 with a Gleason unit. It was built in the early 90's for an ITS racer that blew away the competition, especially in the rain. At one race he lapped the entire field at Watkins Glen. Unfortunately no one ever got a look under his 240 to see that he was using an R-200! He was protested many times for supposedly illegal engine mods but I think he got away with the one mod that put him in the winners circle most every time!

I came into possesion of the rear a few years ago from the man who purchased it from him after he quit racing. I have not opened up the case yet to check for any part numbers on the unit. From what I can gather it was a Subaru or Mazda unit. I was told the case required just a little grinding for clearance but obviously it works quite well. If anyone knows where to look for part numbers let me know and I will try to get the numbers so maybe more people could do the same.

[shock96]

That would be great! I pulled the cover off of mine here about a week ago. It has that big ol' Gleason unit. It looks like it didn't require any grinding at all to fit.

As far as part numbers go, they are non-existant. If you call the Torsen company (sold by Gleason a number of years ago) they will tell you that they never made the unit for the Datsun. Oh well.

Mike

[2ManyZs]

I was hoping there would be some part numbers on the unit. I know for certain this was not a unit for a Datsun but was made to fit. I am quite certain it was for a Subaru. If my memory is right Subaru offered Gleason units in their 4 wheel drive cars from the factory before most manufacturers. I'm going to do some checking around and try to find out where the unit came from, hopefully from the guy who had it built in the first place.

[shock96]

I do know that Bob Sharp racing (Electromotive) had some units built for their 280ZX race cars in an R200. I am pretty sure that the Gleason unit is too big to fit in anything but an R200.

Mike

[2ManyZs]

You are right. I've never heard of anyone trying to put one in a 180 rear. Last time I looked on Quaife's web-site their prices seem to be coming down. I think the prices started around $895 for a 180. This is probably because the demand for them has increased since the 240' and 260's have been clasfied in E-Production. I know there have been a lot of people going with the Quaife unit for racing.

IMO it is not an unreasonable price considering the prices of the limited slip units that really aren't set up for racing. Most IT racers just go with a welded rear as the limited slip units must be shimmed up to such a high breakaway to prevent them from slipping and burning out the clutch packs. The limited slip units would be OK for a street car but by the time you set one up you could probably have paid as much as you would for a Quaife unit.

I will try to post anything I can come up with on what is in my R-200 if anyone wants to get one for an R-200.

If I go ever get the 240 I have back on the track I plan on using a Quaife. I'm selling my ITS 280 so I'm planning on using the Gleason rear in a street car I'm rebuilding. So before anyone asks, sorry it's not for sale, but I will share any info I can come up with on what will work in the R-200.

[shock96]

I am turning my 240 into a weekend track car. Driving school and open track events plus some daily driving.

I looked at the Quaife unit. It is basically the same as the Torsen unit except the Torsen unit is a little beefier.

I talked with Dave Rebello about setting up the Quaife unit for an R180. $895 for the unit plus about $600 for the install and basic rebuild. Not too bad.

I am looking forward to trying out the rear end this May!

Mike

[2ManyZs]

Mike,
I finally got a chance to open up the rear I have. The only numbers I can find are these.

P149
P150
P14 on the ring gear carrier

Those are the only numbers I can see without tearing it apart, which I'd rather not do unless I had to. Now if I can do some research maybe it will tell what this Torson unit was designed to fit. I was told it required some gring on the case but can't find any evidence of it. Unless it was on the webbing on the rear cover. It definately is a Torson. Mine is showing a lot of galling on the invex gears. I'll have to do some more reading on them to find out the cause or better yet how to correct it.

[Phred]

Hi Team,
I'm building a 71Z as a Vintage SCCA car. I have been reading all the comments on the Quaife/Gleason/Torson units.
I have chosen to use the R-180 for the weight savings it offers.
I have a 3.9:1, however I need to pull it apart to measure the ring gear, as Quaife offers units in both 110mm, and 115mm ID.
Unless I can find a used one for sale, I'll be ordering one in a month or two. I"ll let you know how it goes.
Phred

[John Coffey]

Dave Rebello wants $600 to rebuild an R180 and install the Quaiffe!? Call these guys: http://www.gearedbyunitrax.com/main.html - Ask for Jerry.

They've built me three R180s - one with the Nissan Comp LSD and two with Quaifes. $300 including all new bearings and seals.

[2ManyZs]

Sounds like a great deal. Rebello is a bit pricey but from what I know about their work it is top notch. Is it worth the money? Depends on who you ask, like everything else, there are differing opinions.

The only problem I see is by the time you buy a ring and pinion in whatever ratio you want and a Quaife or LSD you are talking about a big chunk of change in anyones book. I guess that is the price we pay to have our toys! The old saying goes, he who has the most wins!

[1 tuff z]

to all of those whom are fortunate enuf to have the gleason-torsen units...be thankful. i know a number of racers who also have these units and swear by them. a few years ago, i went thru a friend of mine [35+ years senior engineer at gleason works here in rochester] and we searched for months to try to find a "leftover" unit [even contacted one of his coworkers in japan] with no luck. he then put me in touch with the senior engineer at zexel-torsen [zt/also here in rochester], i struck out there as well. i did speak to the r&d person about a group buy-but it seemed that we'd have to purchase 250+ units and then find a supplier who would b willing to 'guarantee' another 50 in sales per year, to absorb the tool up costs. zt still manufactures the units, gm, subaru, toyota, hummer, etc.-just not for our z cars.

this was of course prior to the resurgance in z popularity. i'd b happy to contact them to see if they make a unit for the z32, but i have no idea if the "guts" of a z32 diff would work in the r200 many of us are running. anyone know??

dreaming of finding that elusive torsen diff...

[2ManyZs]

Sounds like you just may have the contacts to solve part of the mystery here.

I'm 95% sure the unit that is in my R-200 was from a Subaru. I know that some models of Subaru's did have the R-200 in them, but have never been able to track which ones it may have been that got the Torson unit from the factory. Perhaps with your contacts, you could find out by researching possible Subaru cars that came with the Torson, and then which ones came with the R-200 rear differential.

If it proves to be correct they may already have a Torson unit we can get to put in the R-200's, but I am quite certain there is not enough room in the R-180 case for the Torson unit. :cry:

[1 tuff z]

i didn't think that subaru ever used anything larger than the r160. i haven't been able to look under a subaru svx [their last sports car with a 6 cyl] to see if that used the 160 or something larger. subaru also now makes the outback with a 6cyl and i believe that runs an r160 as well. i'm not sure though. anyone else??!

[shock96]

I have never seen anything bigger than an R160 in a Subaru. I am going to check around though and see what is in the Legacy's and the SVX. My interest is piqued.

Mike