What year is mine & what badges?

[joe71]

I am searching for 2 rear qtr badges. I have only 2 holes. Was told should be 3 for a 71 (prod date 1/71). I do have vents in rear hatch (though they are trimless, and I need them also). Help me figger out what year this is and which emblems I need.

[24OZ]

Not sure what you mean by being told there should be 3 holes. Where?

If you have vent holes where the C pillar is then you need the
badges which do not say 240Z they are for 1970 cars.

The seires I cars had the vent on the rear deck lid which you have which suggest a 1970 with cross over to 71 car.

[civ104]

Sounds as if you have a '70 model. The rear grills and logo should still be available from MSA or Victoria.

[kmack]

If you don't have the large round vent hole in the rear quarters, then you have a Series I car. You need the badge that says 240Z on it. It's about 5" long and I think Motorsport still carries them. That is where I got mine. Unfortunately, I don't think you can find the metal ones anymore, only plastic. As for the rear hatch grills, I have two that are off of a spare hatch that are available. They are solid but the chrome is coming off in some areas. $10 each.

BTW, I'd be interested to know what your VIN is. My car was built in Jan. '71 also and is a Series I. I've been told that Jan was when the factory changed over to start making the Series II cars, but they still made a few Series I that same month.

[RandyC]

All (but primarily Kmack),

I have a 4/71 that I am the 2nd owner on and have had since Jan 1976. I just started the resto in December and I have the vent hole in one panel and not in the other. I also have the emblems with just the "Z" on it and they are both metal. I see no evidence that either panel has ever been replaced but have been wondering if I had a "production transition" car.

How certain are you that the transition occurred in January 71....seems like they wouldn't have a mix of quarter panels in the factory too long given that they were building about 1200 cars per month?

Just wondering (maybe my car is real special) :-),

Randy

[kmack]

My information is based on info I received from zhome.com. I believe Carl was the one who enlightened me as to the cross over point. There were some who were surprised that the Series I cars were even built in Jan. '71!

As for your case? It is strange to one quarter from one car and another form a different series. I would really go through to check and see if either the vent hole is filled up (have seen it a lot on cars trying to look older) or for signs the panel could have been replaced at some point. How certain on the history of the car are you? Sure would like to know if you do have a "cross-over" car!

Check in with Carl Beck and see if he can help also.

[2ManyZs]

I would not be surprised if this car was a Series 2 car that got rear ended not long after being sold. It is quite possible the hatch and quarter panel were replaced with Series 1 parts that a dealer had on hand. Back then a dealer would have had to stock parts for both series and someone mistakenly put the wrong ones on it or maybe the owner didn't want to wait for the right ones to be shipped to the shop that was making the repairs.

The are some small differences in the center console which could tell more of the story, if the defogger switch is behind the shifter and the cigarette lighter is the only thing on the fuse box cover it could be a series 1. There is also a difference in the 4 way flasher switch on the dash. Just curious,which way does the defogger grid in the hatch run? Vertical or horizontal?

Kmack, I'm surprised to find out they made any series 1 cars after December 70, everything I have ever read indicated that a January car would have been a series 2. Possibly yours was one of the first off the line after New Years. I have an 11/70 series 1 vin#15749, yours must be about 20,000 or so isn't it?

[2ManyZs]

For joe71, yours is a series 1. Motorsport also has the new vent grills for the hatch as well as the c-pillars emblems. About the only ones you may find difficult to find are the Datsun emblems for the lower front fenders and hatch as well as the 240z hatch emblem. Motorsport can get them but they were unavailable last time I talked to them, they may have them by now.

[EScanlon]

Joe Your car definitely sounds like a Series I. The two holes you describe are the receiver holes for the barrel clips on the pins of the emblems for the quarter panel. The right ones for your car are the ones that say "240Z" on top of a circle.

If your car had the indent hole and hence 3 barrel clip holes around the indented hole, the emblem you would need would be the one that just has a "Z" in the center. These are for the Series II and they are side specific. (i.e. Right/Left)

The Series I had a pair of Vent Grills below the rear hatch window. These vents were in fact FUNCTIONAL. Inside the hatch you should have some ducting that connected to the inside hatch panel. This is how the Series I did the passive vent air circulation system. But since the car's aerodynamics tended to suck the exhaust back in through the vent, it was changed to the window channels.

Many of the emblems you are looking for are hard to find USED let alone NEW. However, I have a source that has been able to get them NEW and in the NISSAN BOX.

The 240Z Channel is no longer available in metal. You can sometimes get it from someone on e-Bay or at swap meets, but rarely new. In fact, there's a guy selling a pair of metal ones on e-bay right now but you can tell the paint is chipped and need some TLC to be good.

They're up for auction, but you can buy them now for $50. Here's the URL:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600626991


My source is the Datsun Dude. He has several listings on e-Bay right now, but you can contact him directly at z@datsundude.com

Here's just a sampling of the items that go hand in hand with your restoration:

"Datsun" Fender emblems

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600418903


Datsun 240Z Roof Pillar Emblems

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600419568


Door Striker Set

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600419393


Hatch Jamb Hardware Kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600605764


I've found that he is extremely fair and his perfomance is second to none.

Another source for emblems and the like is Too Intense Restoration.
Check out his web-site at:

http://www.DatsunRestore.com/

His e-mail is AMODEM04@aol.com

Feel free to tell them I referred you. I don't get anything but they like to know who's putting their name out amongst the bulletin boards and friends.

Have fun and Good Luck finding what you want.

[kmack]

2ManyZ's,

My VIN number is in the 18000's. After initially talking with Carl when I first got the car, it was the last know registered Series I on ZHome.com. Since then, I believe there are one or two more listed that were made in January 1971.

This is part of the reason I have spent so much time getting this car back on the road. It won't be a concours resto., but it will look nice.

[RandyC]

Kmack and 2ManyZs et al,

Thanks for the reply on my "hybrid" rear panels. After more inspection and dis-assembly last night the story is still a little strange. So far I have all the front end pieces removed including the fenders and the fender braces. I also have removed paint at points where there were cracks in the panel's paint and I thought factory seams would be. I found evidence that the right front fender was replaced due to the internal stamped brace being a little deformed. I cannot find any evidence that the right rear panel or door were replaced. The entire left side of the car looks like it has all original panels and welds.

What is strange, though, is that the right rear has the Series I panel and the left (original?) is the Series II panel based on you guys input (it has the large vent hole while the right side is flush and has not been welded over). It seems plausible (but not probable) that an older version panel may have been used as replacement on the right side. I also have the defrost switch only behind the choke lever and only the power socket in the fuse panel cover. I think one of you said that indicates Series I? It is a little confusing!

Whoever did the quarter panel repair (if at all) did a very good job. I don't understand why they didn't replace the right fender brace, though, as it seems it would have been cheap and easy (I have already straightened it based on the left side dimensions).

Anyway, I know I've rambled a bit but I think I'll take your advice and research the previous owner history. I was also thinking it could have been damaged on the trip over here and repaired by Datsun? Either way I still have a very straight and relatively rust-free car (that I have put 150K of the 195K miles it has) to work with but I'd like to explain the "hybrid" nature of my quarter panels
:mad:

Randy

[kmack]

Somebody refresh my memory...

Weren't the Series I cars the only ones with the plastic storage covers, not the "built in frame" storage boxes found in the later years? I know mine has the plastic covers behind the seats. And I had a '73 that had the storage bins located on the rear deck. I'm under the impression that this was a Series I only feature. Am I correct?

If so, Randy, what does your car have?
:confused:

[RandyC]

My Z doesn't have the rear deck boxes or the built-in boxes behind the seats. That hardware was missing when I bought the car 26 years ago. However, the jack and tire tools were attached to (original-looking) brackets and fasteners that are on both sides behind the seats. I always assumed that the storage boxes were retained by this hardware.

Could someone (KMack) send pictures of what the "plastic box" mounting hardware and brackets should look like? I could send pictures as well if it would help.

I am becoming glad that I did not plan to do an "as original" restoration but I still would like to know how the car was outfitted in the beginning. According to Carl Beck's info my 4/71 car is definitely a Series II model. Other strange things are that I have seat backs with the metal vents and with the Round plastic adjusters (series I), not levers. But then it has the push button seat belt clasps (series II). I don't see why the seats would have had to be replaced on a 4 yr old or less car? At least the engine/head/body SNs all seem correct.

Regardless, the car is still special to me as I have had it so long and am still married to the woman I started going out with when I bought it.

Randy

[EScanlon]

I'm copying the following from the article at
www.zhome.com

Specifically:

http://zhome.com/History/New71Late.htm

==================================================
Contributed by: Carl Beck & Elliot Welz.
Last Up Date 15 Feb., 2001

The "Series I" Datsun 240Z's were produced between Oct. 1969 and Jan. 1971. This production period covered two Model Years (1970 & 1971). However Datsun did not implement design or production changes based on Model Years, but rather on
Calendar Years durring this period.

So with the begining of the Calendar Year 1971 Datsun introduced what they refered to as the "New 1971 late model Datsun 240Z Sports". We refer to these as "Series II" Z Cars.

Listed below is a summary of the design/production changes incorporated in the "Series II" 240-Z's. This information was published in a Datsun Factory Service Bulletin dated: Febuary 1971, VOL. 137. According to this Service Bulletin the changes
were to be put into production with HLS30 21001 and HS30 0501.


Copies of this Service Bullentin were contributed
by: Elliot Welz, ZCOOR #115


Summary of changes:

BODY:

1. Ventilation Air Outlets- Change in fresh air ventilation system outlets to rear quarter panels from decklid

2. Two Step Door Check Link>. holds doors open, was full open, now full and half open)

3. Seat Belt Release changed from latch to button, and hangers from seat to rear panel

4. Reversible Key-for starter, steering lock and glove box.

5. Steering Wheel- has punched out holes, they were indents

6. Center Vent Defuser- redesigned and add vertical deflectors

7. Sun Visor - enlarged by about 1" in length

8. Tool Storage- moved to rear deck pockets

9. Reclining/Flip Forward Seat - Lever replaces round knob

CHASSIS:
1. Tire Specification - from 175SR14 to 175HR14

BODY ELECTRICAL:
1. Speedometer- starts at "0" mph instead of 20MPH

2. Oil Pressure Gauge recalibrated

3. Map Light- hood added to map lamp to reduce glare

4. Windshield Wipers - speed up from 68 strokes per minute to 75 spm on "High" speed.

5. Defogger Switch -- changed to include warring light

6. Tail Light Assy- now has four bulbs instead of three

7. Headlight harness changed to prevent electro-chemical attach on lamp terminals

[EScanlon]

Here's another important tid-bit on the issue:
==================================================

1971 HLS30 018000 thru 051583 (I added a "0" to 1800 to correct what's at zhome)

Notable VIN Month Highlights
HLS30 019889 01 Last of Series One Body Style (rear hatch vents).

HLS30 21001 First of Series II Body Style

= omitted =

HLS30 48863 10 Last 1971 Model Year Car Build (HLS30 51583 latest reported so far). 1972 Model Year - HLS30 48863 (earliest reported so far). Flip Forward Seats, New Hub Caps, Center Console Redesigned, gas tank door latch eliminated, 5 inch wide wheels made standard, new 4sp. trans. design, rear end moved rearward 35mm (about 1.5 inches).

11 Pockets added to floor pan for Auto Seat Belt Retractors

==================================================
This is also from Zhome.com

Specifically the Production Changes from 69 to 73. I only selected a couple items due to relevance to this posting.



My 71 Datsun 240Z AT was manufactured 9/71 and it is indeed a Series II 1971. My car has the center console with the ash tray / fuse cover combination up front under the radio. The coin box behind the defrost switch and the knobs for the seats. Yet, when you go to the wiring some of it is from the 72 run.

What I'm saying is that if your manufacture date is close to the end of a given "style" or option run, it is possible that you will have mixed items. The key is to investigate and know for yourself what is what and buy accordingly.

RandyC's anomalies may be explained in any accidents the car may have been involved in. The front and the rear may have been replaced, and not necessarily at the same time. As a result the discrepancy between the good work in back and the not so good work in front could be a simple dealer versus non-dealer repair.

If your car was brought over late 4/71 - 5/71 it is very possible that the repair panels in the warehouse were STILL the Series I. Remember, they wouldn't have necessarily considered a need for replacement panels so soon after a change, when the change was only cosmetic as far as the panel is concerned. Additionally, they wouldn't have shipped all those panels back to Japan just to have them scrapped, they would have used them. Check behind the plastic panels for evidence of a new weld line. That will probably tell you more.


Your seats and seat belts are in line with the production up until 10/71. Mine also has the vents and the round knob for the seats as well as the push button seat belts.

Hope this helps.

[2ManyZs]

Well, all I can say is there must be a very intersesting story as to how your car could have ended up with 2 different quarter panels. If you ever find out how let us hear "the rest of the story"! I do know this, if it is in good shape it sounds like it is worth keeping quite a bit longer, it sure is a bit of a mystery.

Yes, the tool storage boxes were behind the seats on the series 1 cars only, I have a series 2 (rusted out and only good for parts) that has them in the floor. I'm not sure of it's build date. If I had a digital camera I would post pictures of the ones in my series 1 which are in excellent shape. Santa didn't bring me the camera only a scanner so by the time I get the pictures developed someone else will have them posted.

To Kmack, I have a friend here that has a series 1 with an 11/70 build date. His Vin is 1028 less than mine. So by that his was built in early November and mine came a couple weeks later. So between late November and January that's roughly 3,000 cars.
It's ironic that he and I have been friends for 20 odd years and we both end up with series 1 cars with Vin's so close. If it weren't for him I probably never would have gotten interested in Z's. Plus the fact he and I raced together (with each others cars,long story). He bought his brand new and I got mine from my doctor here in town after he owned it for 6 years and put about 1500 miles on it.

[2ManyZs]

You know, I just re-read RandyC's posts and got to thinking maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. It is possible he has a series 1 that has a series 2 quarter that was put on by mistake. He has too many similarities to a series 1 for it to be the other way around.

So, first thing is for you to confirm your Vin numbers. Check the one above the brake booster first, this will be the one that is darn near impossible to change. If I'm right it will not match the one on the door frame that says you have a 4/71 build date. It could be that the left rear was damaged and for whatever reason the wrong plate was put on the car after it was done. If all the vin#'s match we are back to square one again. Check the dash plate, the one on the right strut tower under the hood, the one on the firewall and see if they match the one on the door frame. The one on the door frame is the only one that gives the build date.

As far as how to fix it if it is a series 1, ouch, that's going to take some work. As far as I know the complete rear quarters are not available any more unless someone knows where you can get a new one, if not it's time to go hunting the junkyards.

By the way the tool boxes behind the seats aren't really boxes. They are a cover for the tools that mount to the bulkhead more or less, not a true box. When you said you don't have the tool compartments and lids in the floor that is what got me thinking we were looking at this the wrong way.

[RandyC]

Thank You EScanlon for the latest post

EScanlon made some excellent observations about the quarter panel replacement and fender being replaced at different times...makes very good sense that way. I will be taking off the interior panels soon and will inspect the inside welds for "quality" as well.

I appreciate the observations about my console, seats and ash tray/coin tray/fuse cover. It sounds like the 9/71 model is configured identically to my 4/71 car! Most of the changes posted between the 2 series are otherwise in line with what I have although I still don't know exactly what the "Tool Storage- moved to rear deck pockets" should look like.

With this latest information I really only have to consider that some body panels were replaced in its existence before my ownership and not that someone made a Series 1.5 car out of mine somewhere along the line!

Appreciate all you guys help...I've learned more about my Z in the last week I've been on this site than I have in the last 26 years of ownership! Also just received my Z-Car CD ROMs in the mail yesterday (Thank You Mike) and look forward to seeing how all the bits & pieces are "supposed" to go together.

Randy

[2ManyZs]

What they mean by the tool sorage being moved to the deck pockets is this, if you have carpet that is split for the deck, and you pick it up and find two doors in the deck. They are small cubby holes in what was empty space on the series 1 cars.

There is one thing I didn't see in Carl's list, and that is the gas door being one that has a latch on the series 1's while the series 2's don't!

Please be sure to check out your Vin numbers carefully, we may find the solution yet.

[EScanlon]

>I still don't know exactly what the "Tool Storage- moved to rear deck pockets" should look like.

The tool storage compartments in the Series I were not compartments in the true sense of the word. They were Plastic Covers that hinged from a floor bracket to the vertical steel that comprises the rear axle "step". The tools, handle, rod and the wrench were put in a bag and the jack was mounted below. The cover just hinged up and hid it from view. Think of the tray table in an airplane and you get the general idea. The covers had 3 sides as well as the face of the cover. The fourth side was where the hinge went. One side was bigger than the other, but don't recall which.

When they did away with the Series I Tool Storage, what they did was cut two holes on the floor of the rear deck, closest to the seats, and put a pair of hinged covers with a latch that you turned to open it. The space directly behind the seats was no longer used for tool storage at all, the tool storage was now hidden underneath the floor carpeting on the rear deck.

To determine if your car is a Series I or II, just look at the rear deck floor, underneat the rug, closest to the seats. If you have a pair of openings with lids in there, then you have a Series II, if no openings, then a Series I.

From what you posted earlier, I would say that you had a Series I based on the Tool Storage being mounted on brackets behind the seats. (Another Tell-Tale Sign.)

However, we have to remember this. No car manufacturer as far as I know, would have a clear cut THIS serial number is the last one and THIS NEXT serial number is the first one, when it comes to a complete set of changes as the Series I and II were. More than likely, as your car indicates and so does mine, they change through attrition of old stock. My console has the fuse cover / ash tray combination ONLY found in the 70 and EARLY 71's. That's the console with the defog switch and coin box back behind the shifter. I also have the Tool Compartments in the floor of the rear deck. My wiring harness has the fuel pump wiring but no fuel pump, (indicative of a late 71, 72 model). Yet the dash does NOT have the indent for the decal to the left of the hazard switch, yet my cigar lighter is mounted above the hazard switch (indicating an early 71). My seats are the KNOB style and not the LEVER style. My doors do have the two stage open mechanism. My vents are on the roof pillar and I don't have any vents on the hatch. Yet, I still have the 3 piece hatch seal, which is shortly going to be replaced with a one piece.

The bottom line on this is that you won't be able to determine a DEFINITIVE demarcation on Series I VIN # and Series II VIN #. You are going to find that close to that "change over" VIN and Production Month, you will have "hybrids". Those vehicles are the trickiest to find parts for, as YOU have to keep track of what you have.

Wish I could give you a good set of "Rules of Thumb" to go by, but I don't. Probably the best thing to do is to order one of the Microfiche CD's from here and spend some time identifying what parts you have and which ones do and don't apply to your vehicle.

Bottom line, since your vehicle has already been set up with the vents in the hatch, go with that setup. Get the "240Z" emblem for your roof pillars and get the vents for the hatch. Remember, what YOU do for your car is what is half the fun of owning it.

Just my 2¢

[RandyC]

Ok.....for all those interested in what series car I really have I am going to make a long post identifying each of the changes that a Series 2 car should have compared to what my car has. The more I hear from you all and research this the more special my car becomes; at least to me :-). Useful information includes my DOM of 4/71 and my SN of 27878. The SN is duplicated on the plate under the right strut cap (which also matches my engine SN) and on the plate on the LS door frame and on the LS under the windshield.

Please just leave now if you don't have the time or the stomach for this much useless Z drivel.......

2ManyZs (which I don't think you can have!), KMack and Escanlon primarily have contributed to my understanding of how my car became the unique Z that it is. I am going to cut and paste from EScanlon's msg on S1 to S2 changes......

Start cut and paste: Notable VIN Month Highlights HLS30 019889 01 Last of Series One Body Style (rear hatch vents).

Re: My car does not have the vents in the lower portion of the rear hatch.

1. Ventilation Air Outlets- Change in fresh air ventilation system outlets to rear quarter panels from decklid

Re: As you know my LS quarter panel has the vent and the RS quarter panel does not

2. Two Step Door Check .... holds doors open, was full open, now full and half open)

Re: Mine has this intermediate detent

3. Seat Belt Release changed from latch to button, and hangers from seat to rear panel

Re: Mine has both of these features

4. Reversible Key-for starter, steering lock and glove box.

Re: Mine has this

5. Steering Wheel has punched out holes

Re: Ditto

6. Center Vent Defuser- redesigned and add vertical deflectors

Re: Ditto

7. Sun Visor - enlarged by about 1" in length

Re: Don't know but mine are 5-1/4" in "depth"

8. Tool Storage- moved to rear deck pockets

Re: My rear deck pockets are covered with sheet metal that has numerous ~2" dia holes cut over them (lightening?)

9. Reclining/Flip Forward Seat - Lever replaces round knob

Re: I have the round knob and slight reclining of seat back

CHASSIS:
1. Tire Specification - from 175SR14 to 175HR14

Re: The tires on the car when I got it were 175SR14 (skinny!)

BODY ELECTRICAL:
1. Speedometer- starts at "0" mph instead of 20MPH

Re: Mine starts at "0" but was usually way higher than that when the engine was running!

2. Oil Pressure Gauge recalibrated

Re: Don't know the specific of this but gauge reads "0" to "90" on scale and runs at about 50 psi

3. Map Light- hood added to map lamp to reduce glare

Re: I have the hood

4. Windshield Wipers - speed up from 68 strokes per minute to 75 spm on "High" speed.

Re: Don't know but seems that change is insignificant

5. Defogger Switch -- changed to include warring light

Re: I have the light

6. Tail Light Assy- now has four bulbs instead of three

Re: Mine has 4 builds

7. Headlight harness changed to prevent electro-chemical attack on lamp terminals

Re: Hard to tell but mine still work (in fact all lights still work)

8) HLS30 48863 10 Last 1971 Model Year Car Build (HLS30 51583 latest reported so far). 1972 Model Year - HLS30 48863 (earliest reported so far). Flip Forward Seats, New Hub Caps, Center Console Redesigned, gas tank door latch eliminated, 5 inch wide wheels made standard, new 4sp. trans. design, rear end moved rearward 35mm (about 1.5 inches).

Re: Mine does not have flip forward seats, did have the new hub caps, has the redesigned center console (I have the coin pocket and light......), I have the gas tank door latch as a non-locking chromed (turns 90 degrees CW to open) knob, had/(have one as spare) the 5" wheels, not sure yet on tranny (will have out later this wknd), and don't know about the rear end movement.

9) 11 Pockets added to floor pan for Auto Seat Belt Retractors

Re: Don' t have the pockets

10) Indent for the decal to the left of the hazard switch

Re: Mine does not have this and the aux power outlet is on the right side of the cover over the fuse box

11) 3 piece hatch seal

Re: Mine had this (it has disintegrated) but I am replacing with ???

That is the last of the comparison for now. I await the combined wisdom of the Internet Z Club for a response..............

Randy

[2ManyZs]

Well, this one is beyond me. It is a shame there is no one with the resources like Galen Govier has with Mopar, to have factory build notes and the like on Datsuns. This one would be the kind of thing that would make their life interesting.

I hope someone like Carl Beck can figure this out, because I don't have a clue now.

P.S. Yes, it's possible to have 2 many Z's. I built a two car garage for the two I had then bought two more cars, guess I'll have to add some more space to the garage.

[joe71]

kmack -

my car with the round 240z emblems and rear hatch vents is a production date of 1/71 with a vin of hls 30 19296. one of the last series 1 cars.

now i'm looking for the rear hatch vents and 2 more original "d" hubcaps.

oh, sure some trim pieces would be nice, but i just replaced the su's with webers and my bank account is still reeling from that hit!

[Alfadog]

Mmm... true, but why is my VIN HS3001031 ?

Not HLS... HS ... whats up?

(it's a series 2 240z btw)

[kmack]

Alfadog, the "L" in HLS stands for "left-hand drive". Your's is right hand drive am I correct?

Joe71, I'll have to check and see if I still have the vents that came off the parts hatch I bought. I have new vents so I"m not sure what I did w/ the old ones. They weren't in the greatest shape, but were still in one piece. If I can find them, I'll let you know.

[2ManyZs]

I think MSA still has the hatch vent grills. I believe they were close to 30 bucks a piece though. My car didn't have any when I bought it so I had to buy new ones.

[EScanlon]

I also had the 3 piece hatch seal that had disintegrated into three dozen very hard and broken up fragments. I checked the "original" replacements, and from asking others found out that unless I was doing a concours restoration (i.e. TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY stock, just as it came from the factory, or "I bought it and never drove it, just stored it since then" school of thought), I should buy the later one-piece seal as it works much better for rain.

Since I live in the Pacific North West, and we occasionally get Sunshine to break up our normal year round rain, this was the way to go.

Looking around the boneyards was a waste of time, since the seals are mostly gone on the cars there. Looking at new parts made me blanche. Then in talking to Andy Russell (The Datsun Dude), he let me know that he had access to a very good and reliable aftermarket replacement seal that was as good as if not better than the original Datsun one piece seal. I bought one, and believe me it is everything he claimed.

Contact Andy at z@datsundude.com or at (480) 217-7322 for pricing. He is familiar with what's required to ship to Australia.

Regarding your original (remember?) question.

Forget what "they" told you. Get the 240Z Pillar Badges (note: they're no longer available in metal, just plastic. I have one of the ones in metal, but the chrome isn't perfect.) Andy sells these for $50US / pair.

The Hatch Vent Grilles, KMack has a set for $10 each, but he's mentioned a couple imperfections, Andy has them for $55US / pair.

Anyhow, hope you've gotten enough information to do your car right!

Good Luck, and keep us posted.

[Alfadog]

Ah yes, very well.

So mine's the 1031st RHD car... correct?

[EScanlon]

I would say you are right, but I am not sure (maybe someone else knows for sure) if Datsun differentiated between the Right Hand Drive production and Left Hand Drive.

In other words, I'm not sure if you have the 1031st RHD car or the 1031st 240Z, Right OR Left hand drive.

Anyone?

[Alfadog]

I'm pretty certain it'd be the 1031st RHD car...

Randy said HLS30 019889 was the last of the series 1 cars, and mine is a series 2 and a lesser number....

[jcdozier]

ALFADOG:

Just when I'm getting comfortable with right-hand-drive Zs (HS designators instead of HSL) having their "own" serial numbers, you tell us your 240-Z is a Type II.

Your Profile lists a 1970 240-Z. Since the Type-I Zs were built into early 1971, I'm getting confused. It has long been my understanding that ALL 1969 and 1970 Zs were Type-I. My Type-I 1971 240-Z (HLS30-17559) was built in 12/70.

Do you have more than one 240-Z? Am I wrong in thinking that all 1970 240-Zs are Type-I? This isn't some kind of metric thing, is it?

[Alfadog]

LOL

My car has no grille things under the back window, but it is registered as a 1970 car.

I'll go look at the dates printed on the car (if I can find them)...

I'm getting confused

[EScanlon]

Ok guys, at the risk of repeating myself, if I haven't done so a couple times already.

Trying to identify whether a vehicle is a Series I, II or III based on what features it has now, without knowing the complete total detailed history of the car is an exercise in logic, and sometimes, circular logic.

Items or features of the car that are not easily removed or replaced are easier to use to "type" the car than items that are a known weak spot and hence easily and commonly replaced.

I'm referring to the hatch. It is a known problem item, they rust, they break, they get hit, they ....end up being replaced quite often. The chances that a 1970 Series I got a replacement hatch from a boneyard mid 1980 or 90 just before the current owner got it? Good to Very Good.

Now, let's find out about his vents, or his tool compartments, or whether or not he has the retracts for the seat belts, or whether his fuel vapor recovery tank is metal or plastic. Those items will be more of a "tell-tale" than the hatch.

That his car is registered as a 70 is a good indication that it IS a 70, and therefore a Series I, his hatch not having vents is a good indication that it has been transplanted from a Series II, not that his car is a Series II. Follow my reasoning?

[Alfadog]

My tool box things are in the parcel shelf thing behind the seats..

I tried to look for some dates but couldn't find any!

Series 2 only started *production* in 1971? Or were they built in 1970 but just sold as 1971 models ???

[jcdozier]

Alfadog - I don't know about the right-hand-drive models, but the Zs here have a metal plate above the door latch on the driver's side that has the build date on it.

EScanlon - looks like you understand some of us aren't real bright and have some bad habits - thanks for your patience. Your "registered as 1970" logic parallels mine - if Type-IIs weren't built until 1971, then a 1970 MUST be a Type-I, (or rather, started life as a Type-I). Your point about replacement parts is well taken. I know my Type-I has had a number of parts replaced that weren't from another Type-I.

If Alfadog can't find a build date, perhaps some guru like Carl Beck can shed some light using the serial number?

[EScanlon]

Regarding someone being "bright" and with "bad habits" I'd rather not use those references, nor imply that anyone here is brighter (smarter) than another.

We EACH have our "bright" points. Logic is one of mine, and so is being anal retentive meticulous about how and with what I restore my car. But I will admit to being dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to the mechanical stuff that goes on inside the engine. I know the basics, but why this ring instead of that ring, unless you have a couple hours in which to explain....I'll admit I'll just take it to my mechanic and let him have at it. In fact, even after the explanation, I'd probably take it to him. I know some of MY limitations, and that's one of them.

This just happens to be one of MY "bright" points. Hopefully when I'm posting "Why does this Thingg-A-Ma-Jig affect that Doo-Hickey like this?" type question, then you guys will discover YOUR "bright" spots and help me out. QUID PRO QUO.

As far as being patient, wait till you try to explain something to me and then wonder who needs to be patient.

Enough, you get my point. We all like & endeavour to improve and maintain our Z's. That's the common thread through us all. That you know Differentials, and someone else Suspensions, and someone else ....and you know Jack Schitt about the other parts, that's what makes this site so valuable to us all, we each contribute what we can, and derive from it what we need. Nuff Said.


Regarding the 70 registration automatically being a conclusion that it MUST be a Series I.

I said it is a GOOD indication, not that it was PROOF. There is a series of situations that could result in a Series II being registered as a 70.

Easiest of all? Clerical error. When the car was re-registered after a sale, a clerk inadvertently changed the registration to 1970.

Granted you could make up all sort of Machiavellian or Rube Goldbert type scenarios, but it doesn't really matter, as it is just an INDICATION. The vehicle itself is what must give you the "proof".

Alfa saying his tool compartments being IN the rear deck and not the plastic covers behind the seats and in front of the rear deck, says Series II. His Hatch says Series II. We need to find out about the other indicators, to say it's a I or a II.

So, Alfa, once again, could you check off those items on your car that indicate what year your car is?

[Alfadog]

"whether or not he has the retracts for the seat belts"

They dont retract.

"whether his fuel vapor recovery tank is metal or plastic"

Where's that? And more importantly, WHAT is that???

I have the hand throttle and choke, although they aren't connected atm...

"The tool storage compartments in the Series I were not compartments in the true sense of the word. They were Plastic Covers that hinged from a floor bracket to the vertical steel that comprises the rear axle "step". The tools, handle, rod and the wrench were put in a bag and the jack was mounted below. The cover just hinged up and hid it from view. Think of the tray table in an airplane and you get the general idea. The covers had 3 sides as well as the face of the cover. The fourth side was where the hinge went. One side was bigger than the other, but don't recall which.

When they did away with the Series I Tool Storage, what they did was cut two holes on the floor of the rear deck, closest to the seats, and put a pair of hinged covers with a latch that you turned to open it. The space directly behind the seats was no longer used for tool storage at all, the tool storage was now hidden underneath the floor carpeting on the rear deck."

My storage bins are just behind the seats, in the parcel shelf....
http://av.gtacenter.com/private_alfadog/hatch.gif

I'm pretty sure now that my car is a series 2 ...

[EScanlon]

Although it is definitely pointing to a Series II there are still a couple items that could make it a Series I.

You haven't mentioned if you do in fact HAVE the vents in the C-Pillar. That is, do you have the round "Z" emblem just aft of the quarter lights? (this indicates a Series II)

As far as the retracts on the seat belts, look on the floorpan, near where the seat belt bolts to. Is there a "pocket" there? If there is that's the pocket for the seat belt retract mechanism. (This indicates a Series III)

The Throttle Cable and Choke Cable side by side is definitely a Series I and an early one at that by US standards. The throttle cable was obsoleted very early, as it was deemed a safety hazard.

How about your doors? 2 step detent?

And lastly the fuel tank vapor recovery unit is hidden behind the plastic panel on the same side as the fuel tank access door. (Right Hand Side, unless you RHD chaps really are completely flipped around.) It's a minor point, but as Mike can atest, it is an indicator.

[jcdozier]

Alfadog:
The storage bins do point to a Type-II car, despite the 1970 registration. As EScanlon noted in an earlier post, "Items or features of the car that are not easily removed or replaced are easier to use to "type" the car than items that are a known weak spot and hence easily and commonly replaced".

When one considers what is more easily replaced, items such as the rear hatch, the seats, the doors and the center console do come to mind. The interior rear deck, where the bins are, doesn't seem as likely a replacement.

Since you haven't been able to locate the MVSS tag that lists the build date, (perhaps an indication that the quarter panel, including the door pillar, has been replaced??) I guess all one has to go on is the "replacement logic". I suggest you check the door detents. pillar vents, retractor pockets and the vapor recovery tank. Then look at how many, (and what kind of) Type-I and Type-II "indicators" you have and make your judgment call.

Good luck.